It's time to ban ammunition - for the poor birds

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thegriz

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Here is the link to an article that makes me happy to live OUTSIDE of California.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070818/ap_on_sc/brf_condor_dead

Endangered condor dies of lead poisoning

Sat Aug 18, 5:40 AM ET

LOS ANGELES - An endangered California condor that was being treated at the Los Angeles Zoo for lead poisoning died this week, a conservation group reported.
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Tests showed the bird had 10 times the safe amount of lead in its bloodstream after it was caught at Bitter Creek National Wildlife Refuge last month, according to Audubon California, an environmental and conservation group.

Only about 300 California condors remain in the world.

"Lead poisoning is a tremendous threat to these remarkable birds," said Glenn Olson, executive director of Audubon California.

Researchers believe the condor, North America's largest flying bird, may have ingested lead paint or soil contaminated with lead bullet fragments.

Scientists at the zoo were not able to determine the source of the bird's lead poisoning, said Dr. Janna Wynne, a veterinarian with the Los Angeles Zoo.

The California Fish and Game Commission is set later this month to consider a ban on lead ammunition for hunting in condor habitat.

It's funny. I guess the birds in my area don't love to eat lead shot and bullets as much the the birds in California.
 
Scientists at the zoo were not able to determine the source of the bird's lead poisoning

The California Fish and Game Commission is set later this month to consider a ban on lead ammunition for hunting in condor habitat.

Good science makes for good law ?
 
It is a giant massive creature that is a relic of old times. It must eat a lot more dead creatures than modern buzzards to sustain itself. This means it injests more period. As it finds gut piles, or dead animals from hunters' kills it consumes them. Working with a limited number of animals on which it can feed, and an even more limited number of them dead, it is quite likely that a good number of those limited quantity dead animals will have been killed by hunters.

The bird and people just to do not mix. From power lines, to lead, to us getting rid of most predators that used to create meals for them, such as Grizzly Bears and Mountain Lions killing plentiful game. The only reliable predator now making consistant kills for this scavenger to feast on is humans. Humans use guns.
The truth is this bird is going to die, it is some agencies pet project to enjoy spending millions on 300 birds and feeling they are making a big difference for wildlife, which is likely what they see as thier calling in life. However the human population is growing at a tremendous rate, and habitat loss is going to kill more species than all hunters and other problems combined. They would save more animals spending those millions to purchase birth control for third world nations.
If someone is really an ECO freak, they would have 0 children, as that is the single biggest way someone can forestall the eradication of animals. Well outside of actively getting rid of people. There is of course the Rainbow Six novel's approach of ECO terrorism and trying to kill off large numbers of the human population with disease and strife for the benefit of wildlife and habitat.

Severely restricting the activities of millions for the benefit of 300 seems a bit imbalanced. Perhaps it makes sense to some, but where does one draw the line. CA population as of 2006 was 36,457,549.
So that means 121,525 people are must be restricted per bird. That is one special bird.

A bird that depends on a wildlife population that no longer exists to flourish in numbers. We simply do not have enough predators killing game throughout the state to naturaly keep such a creature fed in large numbers. The predators posed a risk to humans and most have been eliminated in CA. There is the occasional mountain lion, but most are gone.

So for every
Condorchick.jpg
like this chick here, 121,525 people need to change what kind of ammo they use to something much less effective. When the lead is responsible for only a single limited problem out of a great many for this animal.
 
The real threat to California Condors

Condors are eaters of carrion, i.e. dead animals. They also don't take flight easily, like vultures and such. The real threat to these animals are automobiles, as the chief source of carrion in the condor santuary is roadkill. Without a lot of predators leaving carcasses around, the condors have to eat animals that have been whacked by cars, and those animals wind up on the road where the condors then get whacked by the cars as they feed.
This example may be the only condor they can find that actually and verifiably died of lead poisoning. The rest have just disappeared.
Good science or bad science, this report just isn't the whole picture.
 
Seems like a solveable problem to me. How big is the habitat of these 30 wild birds? Could someone set up a program for bismuth shot or copper bullets to be made available to hunters there, at lead ammo prices? seems like a pretty small subsidy compared to what has already been spent on the birds in the past 30 years.

someone could even probably set it up as a non-gov charity. I know a lot of rich californians must like to hunt.
 
Another case of how to lie with statistics, even if there are none!
 
Seems like a solveable problem to me. How big is the habitat of these 30 wild birds?

About 1/3 of the state, which is the third biggest in the union.

Could someone set up a program for bismuth shot or copper bullets to be made available to hunters there, at lead ammo prices? seems like a pretty small subsidy compared to what has already been spent on the birds in the past 30 years. someone could even probably set it up as a non-gov charity. I know a lot of rich californians must like to hunt.

Other than an outright ban on hunting with lead in the designated condor areas, another possibility being considered by the Cal Fish & Game commission is hunter education. As far as a subsidy for non-lead ammo... that might be considered, but I can tell you for sure there is just no way it is going to happen.

Keep in mind that it has not been proven that any condors have died of lead poising from eating lead bullets or shot. It is just a guess that the people who control the condors believe in. I think the estimate was maybe 4 birds that they suspect died from lead. And I think it was 11 that have died from power lines. Maybe they should ban above-ground electricity transmission to save the birds?

What this is really about is antis searching for any pathetic excuse to restrict guns & ammo more, and finding an ally in some eco-nuts.
 
I guess the birds in my area don't love to eat lead shot and bullets as much the the birds in California.

From Ducks Unlimited (see bottom of page):

http://www.ducks.org/Conservation/WaterfowlBiology/2693/UnderstandingWaterfowlWaterfowlDiseases.html

Michigan Dept. of Natural Resources:

http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10370_12150_12220-26676--,00.html

"A Review of the Problem of Lead Poisoning in Waterfowl", an overview of the science (in relation to hunting) by the USGS:

http://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/resource/birds/pbpoison/intro.htm


Any animal that ugly deserves to die of lead poisoning.

Way to take the High Road.
 
"may have ingested lead paint or soil contaminated with lead bullet fragments."

Lead paint from where and when did any bird start eating dirt?

These folks need to get a life or at least a reality check.
 
They didn't throw rice at my wedding because supposedly birds would have eaten the rice on the ground and died. They threw birdseed at us instead. I wonder how birdseed would work in a shotgun :p
 
Have you guys heard of steel shot?

Most waterfowl hunting is now restricted to non-lead shot, because lead is a real problem. It's pretty foolish to argue that lead is ok. Most people (even us non-scientists) believe there is a preponderance of evidence that lead is bad for you (and condors), but most people also believe the world is round so what do they know.
 
There's still significant amounts of roadside that are damaged by lead fallout from automobile exhaust when leaded fuels were still available, what- like 20 years ago.
It's not unlikely that these birds are aggregating their lead levels through diet. So you don't get to use lead shot in Cali. Use something else. What's the big deal?
Currently, we can't eat too much fish due to mercury levels. Fishing grounds are being overfished. The population is exploding and no one wants to recycle let alone have their activities curtailed for the sake of the environment that we all depend on for everything we need.

Find me some safer projectiles and I'll use them in all my guns happily here in North Carolina. Show me a recycling bin and I'll use it. Tell me a species is endangered and I'll stop hunting it. Heck, I'll even help with conservation.
You can be a shooter and an environmentalist. In fact, being sensible to environmental needs tends to tear up the Elmer Fudd/ Redneck stereotypes of shooters for the eco-nazis. And, next thing you know, you're having a beer and a civil conversation.
 
"may have ingested lead paint or soil contaminated with lead bullet fragments."

Lead paint from where and when did any bird start eating dirt?

These folks need to get a life or at least a reality check.

No, you need to read up on the realities of bird anatomy.

Birds have a craw that is used to hold small stones to aid in grinding of food. All birds have them. If the bird ate some shot from a dead animal, or if it picked it up by it's normal rock swallowing habits, then the lead pellets would grind away in its craw giving is a nice does of lead.

Also, as for lead paint, the oxidization of lead produces a sweet tasting powder. Condors have been know to die from drinking antifreeze, which is also sweet, so if it did happen to find a source of lead paint, it is no surprise that it would eat it.
 
When they outlawed lead shot for waterfowl hunting, steel became the new standard. Does that mean cali hunters will switch to steel-core bullets?

I'm pretty sure steel core is already against the rules due to fire hazards.
 
Species have been dying off by the millions if not the billions since the beginning of time.

Why are we so neurotically obsessed with preserving each and every one of them? What's more, why the heck do we spend government money on this?
 
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