I've been asking around all over the place if anyone has experience with Mag-Spark adapters for the Ruger Old Army

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AbitNutz

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As I wrote. I've been trying to find out more info on Mag-Spark adapters. They allow you to use 209 Shotgun primers in place of caps. It seems like a neat thing but if it was so neat then why haven't I seen them all over the place? They're not cheap but if they work I think it would be interesting to play with.
 
Hello AbitNutz,

I have not used them on a revolver, but I did purchase some for our long guns.
Even though I have not shot with them, I purchased them just to have another ignition source.
A co-worker gave me a bag of 209 shotshell primers, I don't know what brands were in the mix.
Some would fit into the Mag-Spark adaptors and some didn't, so I pollished the inside of the Mag-Sparks.
Still some didn't want to slide into them so I built a little sizing die to size the primers, now they will all drop in & out of the Mag-Sparks.
Then I put one on my old Thompson Center Hawkin, it would be plug & play.
I then put one on my Lyman Great Plains Hunter, but with a primer installed the hammer would rest on the firing pin at half cock.
So I purchased a second hammer for the Lyman and shaved about 0.200" off the hammer face.
Like I said I've never fired them, I just wanted to have another ignition source in case I ever ran out of caps.
I also purchased a couple extra Cap & Firing Pin assemblys, thinking if one dropped it in the field you'd never find it.

AntiqueSledMan.
 
No experience but from what I've read they're a royal pain to use and just add more time to your reloads. Maybe if you hunted with it.
 
I can think of no valid reason to use them. I don't have any experience with a Old Army Ruger, But I've never had any cap fail to fire, or any chamber fail to fire if the cap went off, (I've never had a cap not go off) on any of my revolvers. Primers can fail to go off. Happens with cartridge ammo.

If such a device is "needed", then something is wrong with the revolver and should be addressed. Sounds like a real waste of money. However, I have no experience with them. But again, if the revolver fails to fire, there is something wrong with the revolver and no such gizmo is going to fix it. ? That's why you don't see them all over the place.

Don't do it!!! :)
 
Ugly Sauce said:
I can think of no valid reason to use them. I don't have any experience with a Old Army Ruger, But I've never had any cap fail to fire, or any chamber fail to fire if the cap went off, (I've never had a cap not go off) on any of my revolvers. Primers can fail to go off. Happens with cartridge ammo.

If such a device is "needed", then something is wrong with the revolver and should be addressed. Sounds like a real waste of money. However, I have no experience with them. But again, if the revolver fails to fire, there is something wrong with the revolver and no such gizmo is going to fix it. ?

Don't do it!!! :)
Click to expand...

Agree. The only caps I've had fail to go off were Remingtons that were missing priming compound. I've gotten in the habit of glancing at them before I put them on now. To use the Mag Spark you have to unscrew the firing pin hooey and put your 209 in it and then screw the hooey back on and then do it five more times. After firing you have to unscrew the hooey again and probably pry the fired 209 out of it and then do it all over again. I'm not about speed and I don't mind reloads being slow but that would make me forget what I was doing in the first place.:p
 
hawg said:
No experience but from what I've read they're a royal pain to use and just add more time to your reloads. Maybe if you hunted with it.
Click to expand...
I think that’s the only real use for this gizmo. Not sure I’d bother though. Caps work fine for me.
 
Seems like overkill to me, I have a couple of gadgets that came with my double percussion rifle. They use a small pistol primer. Can't picture using those 209 primers in a revolver. Seems klutzy and cumbersome.
 
i have used mag sparks and think they are great!
Pedersoli also makes an identical product that is better fit and finish

i do not know of any mag spark or similar device that is made to allow the clearance of a cap and ball revolver -

Funny how sometimes withoput ever having used or even seen something firsthand opinions are formed or judgement as to worthlessness is cast (I’ve heard tell of a new tangled product of smokeless powder in a self contained cartridge with projectile - but whatever the use for😹)
Although I typically prefer black powder the mag spark 209 ignition allowed me to use blackhorn which also with a sealed and secure ignition provided IMHO advantages hunting in severe inclement winter weather (I am not afield hunting only in fair weather.
iv’e successfully hunted with them on a different muzzleloaders of mine; shotgun fowler, rifle, and rifled musket.

Just my 2 cents worth - your mileage may vary and not the first abomination I have altered (easily retrofitted and removed) my traditional and original arms including to accommodate my aging eyesight.
I Hope this does not step on too many toes - but my feet only get sore from tromping the woods and hills🦊
 
moose1858 said:
i have used mag sparks and think they are great!
Pedersoli also makes an identical product that is better fit and finish

i do not know of any mag spark or similar device that is made to allow the clearance of a cap and ball revolver -

Funny how sometimes withoput ever having used or even seen something firsthand opinions are formed or judgement as to worthlessness is cast (I’ve heard tell of a new tangled product of smokeless powder in a self contained cartridge with projectile - but whatever the use for😹)
Although I typically prefer black powder the mag spark 209 ignition allowed me to use blackhorn which also with a sealed and secure ignition provided IMHO advantages hunting in severe inclement winter weather (I am not afield hunting only in fair weather.
iv’e successfully hunted with them on a different muzzleloaders of mine; shotgun fowler, rifle, and rifled musket.

Just my 2 cents worth - your mileage may vary and not the first abomination I have altered (easily retrofitted and removed) my traditional and original arms including to accommodate my aging eyesight.
I Hope this does not step on too many toes - but my feet only get sore from tromping the woods and hills🦊
Click to expand...
No Moose, don't hurt my toes. However, I'll say in my own defense, that knowing a revolver can be/should be 100% reliable with nipples and caps, and knowing that if a revolver does have ignition problems, it's not the design. It's not a great leap in judgement to determine that such a device, on a revolver, does not make sense...or that it would be a cure worse than the disease. On rifles and shotguns using other than black powder, I will withhold my judgement for sure. ! But on a revolver...yeah I see it as kind of an abomination. A cure worse than the disease. One step forward, two steps back. A solution without a problem!!! :) :)
 
Today I learned of Mag Sparks for ROA. Lurn'd me something new every day.
 
I on the other hand see them as a problem.

No No and no this has been discussed before. They have no screw on covers like the rifle mag sparks. Because of this you can only load very very very weak loads (hint start at 5 grains of black powder and work your way up until you see signs of back bulging and no connicals because they are to heavy) which may work for close range paper punching. Any load that even comes halfway close to any kind of bullet velocity will cause bad blow back. Expect BB gun velocity.

I do like rifle magsparks they work well in all weather despite having to screw on a cap.

I am very peeved that they don't make this crystal clear in their marketing. It's after you get your hands on the instructions when the what did I buy regret bomb gets dropped on you.

The thread below talks extensively about this. The British version is essentially the same as the magspark Ruger Old Army setup.

Any interest for smokeless powder cylinder with 209 primers for Ruger Old Army?

Any interest for smokeless powder cylinder with 209 primers for Ruger Old Army? Last week I had a conversation with the lady from Howell Arms https://www.howellarms.com/ regarding manufacturing of SMOKELESS CYLINDER FOR MUZZLE-LOADING REVOLVER, using 209 shotgun primers. They have patent for...
www.thehighroad.org

There was a guy who made a pistol primer setup that worked with all loads like a primer should, It was very well liked by the lucky few who got them but only a small amount were made. My impression is he did not like all the hassle involved in making them and refuses to make any more.
 
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Probably a better solution is to counterbore the Ruger nipple so the flash is larger into the cylinder (think Chambers White Lightning touchole). The trouble would be the blowback against the cap (and possible jamming of the cap against the cylinder).
 
hawg said:
So do CCI #10 and #11.
Click to expand...
Hey! I was gonna say/add that! But didn't. Dang it Hawg, you whooped me again! :cuss: For sure, I'm a bit puzzled that people are having ignition problems to the point of going to modern primers, and the extra fiddle-de-doo of using gadgets, doo-DADS, and gizmos use them. ? If a percussion gun is cleaned properly, and loaded properly, it's going to go bang every time. User error if it doesn't, or something mechanically wrong with the firearm.
 
Ugly Sauce said:
Hey! I was gonna say/add that! But didn't. Dang it Hawg, you whooped me again! :cuss: For sure, I'm a bit puzzled that people are having ignition problems to the point of going to modern primers, and the extra fiddle-de-doo of using gadgets, doo-DADS, and gizmos use them. ? If a percussion gun is cleaned properly, and loaded properly, it's going to go bang every time. User error if it doesn't, or something mechanically wrong with the firearm.
Click to expand...
I’ve never had ignition issues with blackpowder or any substitutes using regula old caps. The channel is short and straight and unless it’s blocked or full of oil just plain works.

I suppose people are looking for a way to make a magnum using Blackhorn or something like that… if that’s the case, Ruger makes a fine .44 Magnum or .45 colt which will be just fine.
 
So that’s really a European thing where they use smokeless powder with the ROA cap and ball. There’s no advantage to 209 primers with black powder or it’s substitutes in terms of ignition, and they are substantially more powerful than nos 10-11 percussion caps which could lead to increased fouling with ball and much of powder load pushed to/through the cyl gap before combustion develops. The only valid reason to use 209 primers with black powder is if the much more suitable percussion caps are not in any way available.
 
Interesting hypothesis, how is unburned powder going to go through a barrel cylinder gap that's only .002 wide? It should be well on its way down the barrel and in the final stages of combustion a few micro seconds after the hammer drops.
 
Jackrabbit1957 said:
Interesting hypothesis, how is unburned powder going to go through a barrel cylinder gap that's only .002 wide? It should be well on its way down the barrel and in the final stages of combustion a few micro seconds after the hammer drops.
Click to expand...
My view is that that vastly greater power of the 209 primer will push the whole load forward, certainly much more so than 10-11 percussion caps. Do you imagine that there’s no blow-by at the gap even with appropriate percussion caps? In any event, 209 primers will certainly increase pressures vs percussion caps. They have zero value in a black powder cap and ball revolver unless there’s no other form of ignition available.
 
I am well aware there's gases escaping at the barrel to cylinder gap. I kinda doubt the entire load is going to move from the primer going off unless it's a very loose fitting ball. When the barrel to cylinder gap on these revolvers, especially open tops, is set to .002 to .004 it cuts down on how much stuff escapes out the sides and makes for a more complete burn. I mention open tops on account it's much easier to adjust the end shake as opposed to the ROA. As mentioned by a few previous guys, the idea of using 209 primers in a revolver seems like a waste of time. In the event you were reduced to such a problem there's always making your own primers which can most likely be cheaper, once the equipment is in hand, than going to buy 209 primers.
 
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