Can you guys do something? Next time you go shooting, or if you have empty casings from a particular gun you've shot, can you post a pic of where the firing pin hit the primer? I would bet each handgun has a unique identifier of where the firing pin hit the shell casing. What do you guys think? How about some pics of spent casings from particular guns?
I've noticed something about shell casings
- Thread starter XDn00b101
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Vex
Member
This has been used before in a court of law to prove which kind of weapon fired a bullet that killed someone.
Berek
Member
XDn00b101 said:
this has been shown for every gun, not just hand guns. Location, shape, etc... Just watch CSI... every 3 or 4 episodes use this technique and yes, it is used in real life...
10 Ring Tao
Member
With glocks having one of the most distinct primer impressions.
bogie
Member
That is just ugly.
I like a nice small firing pin strike in the exact center of the primer. In fact, I sort of expect that.
I like a nice small firing pin strike in the exact center of the primer. In fact, I sort of expect that.
Firehand
Member
It's used to try to prove what firearm a cartridge case came out of, but it's far from a '100% certain, THIS gun did it' thing.
Go to smallestminority.blogspot.com and I think he has a link on the sidebar to a post he did on 'ballistic fingerprinting' that includes information from a study done for the CA Attorney General's office that pointed out just how uncertain it can be; very good reading.
Go to smallestminority.blogspot.com and I think he has a link on the sidebar to a post he did on 'ballistic fingerprinting' that includes information from a study done for the CA Attorney General's office that pointed out just how uncertain it can be; very good reading.
As uncertain as it is it's the law in MD that all new guns be fired and the shell casing be sent to the state police. For an extra fee, of course. How many crimes has it solved? If you believe the Brady's and the mostly liberal police in the state - ONE. Though that particular case was solved by other means that one factor got the press. There was a bill introduced at the time to repeal it, which the state police supported.
BigRobT
Member
Maybe that's why certain "authorities" in Boston want micro-printing on the firing pin or ejector(?) as I read in another thread on this forum. What an easy way to track back a discovered spent casing. I can't say that I am for or against the microprinting idea, quite yet. I can see certain advantages and disadvantages.
TallPine
Member
So are they going to outlaw revolvers, too ....?
Firehand
Member
The imprinting idea was floated in CA; by the time the costs of it, not just the cataloging and so forth but the cost to police who buy ammo for practice(screw the plain citazens, of course), it was voted down.
Yes, MA and NY both have to have a cartridge case for all new handguns sold. And it has solved zero cases. In the couple of cases where ballistic comparison of cases was actually used and credited to the system, they already had a suspect and weapon in custody; it was NOT used to find the weapon.
Yes, MA and NY both have to have a cartridge case for all new handguns sold. And it has solved zero cases. In the couple of cases where ballistic comparison of cases was actually used and credited to the system, they already had a suspect and weapon in custody; it was NOT used to find the weapon.
jobu07
Contributing Member
We have that law in NY also. A month ago I was on the floor of the state Assembly giving my boss talking points regarding a .50 caliber ban bill the Democrats introduced and he asked me for a few snippits of info about our COBUS program and how f'ing worthless it is. Suffice to say, it has solved 0 crimes and cost the taxpayers mear millions...MikeK said:
UberPhLuBB
Member
These pictures are quite large and may take you 56Kers awhile to get through them. I'm sorry to hotlink them, but consider it motivation to get yourselves broadband!
I took some pictures of .40S&W and .45ACP brass. The .40S&Ws are from my Walther P99, they've all got the same unique firing pin mark which is clearly visible on all three shells. However that may only be indicative of the model of gun, not any firearm-specific markings. You'd need to see another P99's brass as a control. Striations are visible but differ significantly from shell to shell. All 3 are quite different, yet all come from the same gun. No modifications have been made to the gun before, during, or after any of the 3 shells were fired.
The .45s are from my 1911, and those marks seem fairly bland and are not unique. One is circular, the other is slightly oblong, so even the general shapes aren't consistent from shell to shell. There are no visible striations at all.
However, while handling the brass, I did think to take pictures of the extractor and ejector marks. Interestingly, these were in fact unique, and striations are visible (at least on the .40S&W). With more magnification, it may be possible to differentiate. The .40S&Ws had marks under the lip of each shell, where the long extractor claw's tip gouged and raked the brass. The .45s however are once again bland. I noticed that there were no ejector indentations on the .40S&W rounds, and no extractor markings on the .45 rounds. Because the .45 rounds marks are from a straight-on impact with the ejector rather than the extractor, there are no readily visible striations. But there is a unique indentation on the right 1/4 of each ejector mark, and there are actually tiny horizontal striations in that mark!
I took some pictures of .40S&W and .45ACP brass. The .40S&Ws are from my Walther P99, they've all got the same unique firing pin mark which is clearly visible on all three shells. However that may only be indicative of the model of gun, not any firearm-specific markings. You'd need to see another P99's brass as a control. Striations are visible but differ significantly from shell to shell. All 3 are quite different, yet all come from the same gun. No modifications have been made to the gun before, during, or after any of the 3 shells were fired.
The .45s are from my 1911, and those marks seem fairly bland and are not unique. One is circular, the other is slightly oblong, so even the general shapes aren't consistent from shell to shell. There are no visible striations at all.
However, while handling the brass, I did think to take pictures of the extractor and ejector marks. Interestingly, these were in fact unique, and striations are visible (at least on the .40S&W). With more magnification, it may be possible to differentiate. The .40S&Ws had marks under the lip of each shell, where the long extractor claw's tip gouged and raked the brass. The .45s however are once again bland. I noticed that there were no ejector indentations on the .40S&W rounds, and no extractor markings on the .45 rounds. Because the .45 rounds marks are from a straight-on impact with the ejector rather than the extractor, there are no readily visible striations. But there is a unique indentation on the right 1/4 of each ejector mark, and there are actually tiny horizontal striations in that mark!
10 Ring Tao
Member
Awesome shots, how did you get them? I can't do that with my cam, even with the flower setting on.
UberPhLuBB
Member
Nikon Coolpix 4500 and the Nikon LED macro light (with a little help from a Surefire in some shots). The macro setting is fantastic on the 990/995/4500 series, it's why I bought the camera.
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