IWB.....Concealed or Open Carry?

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bonza

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When I carry I usually just drop my S&W 442 in my pants pocket. Access to the revolver is fine, as long as I'm standing, but if sitting it would take some effort to get the gun out if needed. I had a family get together yesterday that required the wearing of a suit, so I thought I'd take the opportunity & try carrying the 442 in my Uncle Mikes IWB holster that I bought years ago but have never really used. It was quite comfortable, & the revolver stayed-put even though I was in & out of a car & up & down out of chairs, etc. & nobody suspected that I was carrying.....I have a couple of sister-in-laws who would have objected if they'd known.....so I was pretty happy with the way it worked out. When we were at the in-laws home later in the day my brother-in-law asked if he could take my suit coat to hang up while we sat around & ate, I declined as I didn't want to show that I was carrying.
All this got me thinking that if I was in a different situation ie. not in a anti-gun relative's home, & I did decide to remove my suit coat, thus exposing the top half of the gun, would that then be considered as Open Carry (remember it's in a IWB holster), or an exposed Concealed Carry? I live in a state were Open Carry is legal, but would a IWB holster qualify as Open Carry if there is nothing covering the exposed part of the gun?
I am thinking I'll use this carry method more frequently from now on, as accessability is much better than when in my pocket, & will probably resort to an untucked polo shirt or similar for the upcoming summer months to aid in concealability. The UM holster seemed to do a good job, but are there any better choices?
 
If it can be seen it is open carry. Technically even with OWB holsters some of the gun is still covered by the leather making it not much different than IWB. It is just leather instead of pants.
 
It's a function of where you are.

If open carry is legal where you are AND you have some sort of concealed carry credential, LEGALLY it CAN'T matter, since no matter how a cop interprets it, open or concealed, you're legally in the clear.

On the other hand, if you don't have some kind of credential, you can get into trouble if a cop just feels like making trouble for you. Not long ago in Cleveland, a kid got in trouble for having a CZ52 in a FULL FLAP HOLSTER. The cop claimed it was "concealed". There was some kind of trivial plea deal, but if he'd had an Ohio CHL, either the whole thing never would have happened at all, or the cop would have been looking down the barrel of an ugly lawsuit he couldn't win.

I carry IWB 99% of the time, usually under a tucked polo shirt, when it's cool under a sweatshirt. I don't OC. I'm not opposed to it. I just see no reason to do it myself.
 
Deanimator said
If open carry is legal where you are AND you have some sort of concealed carry credential, LEGALLY it CAN'T matter

That's kind of what I thought, I do have a CHL & Open Carry is legal here. Generally speaking I'm not personally comfortable with Open Carry, but I can see that there may be times when I am carrying concealed & would like to remove a jacket or whatever, say at a BBQ or get-together with friends who are comfortable around guns, & I would be OK doing so then.
 
I think the legallities have been coverd. There are some better choices of holster, I prefer Galco.

The Uncle Mike's have a tendancy to rock back and forth on my belt and the plastic clip-on has been known to break
 
I bought a cheap IWB holster at a gun show yesterday. It has a very stout spring steel belt clip with a design that does not come loose. It's a very simple holster, but on a 3.5 mile hike up the side of a mountain yesterday, it didn't move around and it was totally comfortable (642 in it).

I'm not sure you have to pay Galco prices to get something this simple. You just have to decide if you like a particular one (if that's the Galco, then that's the one to buy, of course).

WRT open vs. concealed...

In Montana, last I checked, you can't conceal ANY part of the firearm and have it considered open carry. If you have a drop holster but a jacket hangs over the grip of the gun, that's "concealed" in the law's eyes. (How this is enforced is probably dependent on where you are, what you are doing with the gun, your attitude, etc.)

Idaho isn't all that specific. The law says "openly" and "concealed" but doesn't define the terms. You'd probably have a good argument that the gun is "open" if you can easily see it sticking out of your pants.

Obviously, IWB with a shirt hanging over your pants is "concealed."

If I intended to open carry, though, IWB isn't how I'd choose to do it. Open carry allows for a wider variety of holsters and firearms.:)
 
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In Maine, tucking a gun into your rear waistband is open carry, so long as the handle shows above the waistline. For whatever reason this form of carry is very comfortable for me. I typically wear a jacket or long shirt outside my trousers to conceal it, since I got my concealed permit.
 
Here in OH we had a lot of fun with a "plain sight" requirement while driving.... In short, you could, with a CHL, drive around with a weapon on your belt, but it had to be "visible"....

However, "plain sight" was clearly defined by the AG as "we'll let the courts sort that out".... :(

Where things got goofy is that "plain sight" in terms of contraband was NOT generally accepted as "plain sight" for compliance with this law. Contraband, if only slightly more visible than "hinted at", is "in plain sight". Guns, apparently, were not. There were LEO's who claimed they'd arrest for "plain sight" violations if the gun was in an IWB....

(The real laugh is that OH is an "open carry" state - no license required, which makes any kind of visibility legal as long as you're not someplace you can't carry at all. Of late, the criminal and terrorist friendly are now complaining about open carry, after having complained about concealed carry because we could open carry.... :fire: )

(We got rid of "Plain Sight" a couple years ago. The Legislature over-rode the Governor's veto to do it. First and only time he ever got spanked.... :D)

Regards,
 
Idaho has a plain sight requirement for unlicensed vehicle carry.

However, I don't think anybody knows exactly what that means. Dashboard? Seat? Holster? What about tinted windows that make nothing really "in plain sight"?

I also had ex-cops and current experts tell me that the law doesn't apply to long guns: they can be concealed in a vehicle with no license. I'm not sure why people have window-mount gun racks, if that's the case. Tradition, maybe.

With a CWL, it doesn't matter.
 
I bought a cheap IWB holster at a gun show yesterday. It has a very stout spring steel belt clip with a design that does not come loose. It's a very simple holster, but on a 3.5 mile hike up the side of a mountain yesterday, it didn't move around and it was totally comfortable (642 in it).
I like the Don Hume 715M IWB. It's reasonably priced, well designed and well made. I have them for all of my regular CCW guns, from a full size Norinco M1911 to a 3" S&W Model 65.
 
Rockwell1 said:
The Uncle Mike's have a tendancy to rock back and forth on my belt and the plastic clip-on has been known to break

My UM IWB is probably 12-14 years old & has a steel clip. I have noticed that it does pivot a little, but so far so good. I wore the IWB under my suit coat at church today with no issues, & it's now under an untucked polo shirt with jeans. Appreciate all the comments & suggestions thus far.
 
In Missouri several years ago (before we had ccw), a policeman arrested a pizza delivery driver for carrying concealed. When the the judge asked the cop how he know the driver had a gun, the cop said he saw it. The case was immediately dismissed!
 
bhk:

In 2004 there was a case here in OH where a passenger in a vehicle apparently was carrying "in plain sight", but when ordered out of the vehicle, his cover garment flipped over the gun.

Ended up costing him $150-ish, plus whatever he paid his lawyer. Then, when he asked for the Judge to return his gun, the Judge refused. When the lawyer told him that he couldn't do that, the Judge's response was to the effect of "we'll let a higher court decide that".

(I don't remember who put that straight, but the Judge relented some days later. Seems that the law in question, for once, was not vague.)

Concealed can get to be kinda interesting, btw, in this context. I'm wearing a 3.5" 1911 in an OWB right now. If I stand up, it's kind of invisible. With the shirt I'm wearing, though, it prints fairly nicely. Still probably concealed by all but the most stringent "don't dare print", but "the cop said that he saw it" might still apply....

(If I think I'm going to care at all, I wear a better fitting shirt :D....)

Regards,
 
The Uncle Mike's have a tendancy to rock back and forth on my belt and the plastic clip-on has been known to break
I tried dozens of IWB holsters over the past 5 or 6 years from very cheap to very expensive and the best I have found is a cheap, $15 bucks, Uncle Mike's IWB. I use it every day of the week and never had any type problem with it in two years.
 
I posted this on my blog a few weeks back. It may be something you would want to show to your wives if they don't carry...

Why This Woman Carries a Firearm:

This is a derivation of a very well written piece by “Syd” on a fellow blog. I felt that it was very indicative of many of the reasons why sensible people do carry a firearm, but I felt that it needed some insight spiced with a tad bit of estrogen. J


I carry a firearm to ensure my children are educated about firearm safety, not the victims of some other child’s (or adult’s) ignorance.

I know that the best way to teach a child about firearm safety is to remove the air of mystery from it and truly educate them about the “when’s” “why’s” and “how’s” of a firearm. I know that if I am not educated on the use of a firearm then, should I come across one in the hands of a child, my ignorance may add to a dangerous situation instead of eliminating it.


I carry a firearm because I know what looks good on me—confidence. Possessing the ability to defend one’s self has an amazing affect on confidence. The opposite of confidence is fear. I’ve discovered that fear masks a great deal of my wonderful attributes, such as kindness, love, and charity. When I’m more confident, I’m a much better person to share with everyone else in my life.


I carry a firearm because I don’t trust my “gift of the gab.” As great as I am at talking to complete strangers in ideal circumstances, it’s unlikely to do me any good against someone intent on causing me harm. However, there is a great deal of research that says a firearm is a much stronger negotiator than I could ever hope to be.


I carry a firearm because I am a mother (or an aunt, grandmother, sister)—a calling which I take very seriously. As a mother I have no other more critical responsibility than to take care of myself AND those entrusted in my care. Should something threaten to eliminate me from this earth and my influence upon my children, or threaten to remove them from my arms of love, I am sufficiently armed and adept to ensure this does not happen. If some harm does come to my children, it will not be because I could not overcome my own fears or foolish prejudices. I cannot stop everything awful from happening to them, but I can ensure that I am the best prepared to stop most. Only then are my hands clean before my Maker, knowing that I truly did my best to protect them. In doing so, not only do I raise my children well, but I give them a chance to do the same with their own families.


I carry a firearm to help the nation I live and raise my family in to be strong and secure. Protection of a nation begins with protection of an individual. What good is sending my husband, father, brother or son off to fight in a war—whether in a foreign nation or within our cities—if I’m not willing to do my part to protect our nation as well? This nation is strong only because of our freedom. I carry a firearm to ensure I keep my freedom should someone else attempt to usurp it.


I carry a firearm because I know my physical limits. While I may run the equivalent of several miles every day and work out regularly to strengthen my muscles, none of this prepares me sufficiently for a violent encounter. Whether I like it or not, the prospect of a 6’4”, 280-pound, drug-crazed criminal acting against my freedom is realistic. A good right hook or kick to the groin, however well planted it may be, may just be the provocation my assailant needs to kill me. That’s unacceptable—unacceptable that the criminal’s actions against me could eliminate my freedom to live. I’m not willing to gamble with the use of weaker forms of defense. A firearm may be exactly what I need to stop the assailant because I fight back to win unequivocally, not to wonder if I have done enough.


I carry a firearm because I prefer my close encounters to be for love, not fighting. I prefer to never have to remember the alcohol and drug-induced breath, or the color of rage in the assailant’s eyes, or the feel of his powerful fists against my head. Instead I prefer to let the bullet do the fighting for me. I believe I will be much more sane after such an encounter.


I carry a firearm because I hate waiting and wondering. Given the number of police officers who work in any community at any given time, I know that the number of criminal offenses out-number law enforcement an average of 10 to 1. Only after I’ve done my part to ensure my safety do I wait on 911, instead of relegating my safety to the unlikely odds that someone else can defend me in my time of need.


I carry a firearm because I am an independent woman, not a statistic. I refuse to be weak, afraid, and naïve and insist on mastering my domain by asserting my time and talents to take responsibility for my own safety and peace of mind. Too many women are statistics of crime rather then examples of strength. The only one that can stop this false impression from perpetuating further is me.


I carry a firearm because as a woman, I’m all about being prepared. That’s the reason why I never let my gas tank go down below half, never open the door to someone I don’t know, and I never give out my credit card number to someone I didn’t call… just in case. If you were to look in my purse you would see band-aids (just in case) lipstick, face powder, hair brush, and hair spray (even though I leave my home properly made up… it’s just in case), more cash that I would ever think to use in a day (just in case), a fuel credit card even though I don’t believe in using credit… just in case… and a small sewing kit with safety pins… just in case. Suffice it to say that I rarely use my “just in case” items, but I sure hate being without them when I need them. If you were to delve further into my handbag you would also find a knife, an Asp, red-dyed pepper spray and a firearm with a spare magazine. You guessed it…just in case.


I carry a firearm because as a woman I have the privilege of giving life. That’s right. I don’t carry a gun to take life, but to ensure that it’s fully given to those who choose to live.
 
Deanimator said:
I carry IWB 99% of the time, usually under a tucked polo shirt, when it's cool under a sweatshirt.

How is this done? Doesn't the clip keep you from getting the shirt tucked in?
 
bonza:

At the risk of getting deanimated ('cause he knows where to find me :)), I expect he's using a "tuckable" holster. Those kind of ride behind your belt/waistband, and allow for you to tuck the polo (or other) shirt in OVER the gun.

You have to avoid really tight-fitting shirts :), but it's workable, and you'd be surprised at how big a gun you can hide that way.

For an example (not a recommendation, although I've used mine), check the DeSantis "Tuck This". I don't think this is the best one available anymore, but it's quite clear how it works.

Regards,
 
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