just ordered my osprey defense gas piston conversion for my m4 today

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Small Arms Review did a test of DI vs. a POF piston, the piston ran through just over 1000 rounds, dumping CMAG after CMAG, the direct gas had a gas tube rupture before running through its 3rd CMAG.

Not an issue for me, I don't have a select fire lower, I don't have reliability problems with DI, and I certainly dont have the money for one of them shiny newfangled things. :D
 
Anything ever come of this piston dealy?
What was the outcome?
Cleaner?
More reliable rifle?


Sam.
 
whats the major advantage of the gas piston over the direct impingement system already in place, except cleaner? inquiring minds want to know

Just the ability to function properly, something the ar has had issues with for some 40 years. :cool:
 
DI was a replacement for the unreliable GP. Now GP is replacing DI for the very reason that DI was used in the M16. Frickin marketing.
 
DI was a replacement for the unreliable GP. Now GP is replacing DI for the very reason that DI was used in the M16. Frickin marketing.



according to what i have learned, the DI system was suppossed to make a more accurate, and just as reliable rifle. not sure if this is right.

Anything ever come of this piston dealy?
What was the outcome?
Cleaner?
More reliable rifle?

well, i am not the OP, but my POF is very, very clean, and i have had no problems whatsoever. except that ammo is getting sooo expensive. problem with all guns:D
 
well, i am not the OP, but my POF is very, very clean, and i have had no problems whatsoever. except that ammo is getting sooo expensive. problem with all guns

You're not in combat fighting under adverse conditions either. :cool:
 
according to what i have learned, the DI system was suppossed to make a more accurate, and just as reliable rifle. not sure if this is right.

I think the weight savings of a DI system versus a piston operated weapon was another big concern/motivation.
 
Well, it is October and i still don't have it

Well, it is October and i still don't have it yet....so much for mid May.
 
The lurker speaks... I have more info.

Received a T&E unit in September at out police department. We installed it in a like new Colt AR-15A2 Government Carbine. I have since put 3000+ rounds through the converted rifle (1500 rounds as part of the T&E process, a tactical rifle course, and two qualifications.)

Installation was extremely easy and is well documented on the internet if you want details. We received an earlier version with a replacement gas key; the retail version that is shipping now with a one piece BCG. M4 hand guards were included. I hate Mr hand guards and intend to modify the heat shield in a Magpul MOE hand guard to work with the conversion.

The conversion has operated flawlessly. No failures in 3000+ rounds.

The weapon was not cleaned in the first 1500 rounds for the T&E. I admit that I was shocked when I split the receiver. The weapon fires CLEAN! There was nominal fouling in the receiver and the BCG was exceptionally clean. The fouling encountered in the receiver group was a very light coating of carbon (probably deposited at the extraction operation), the normal tiny grains of brass generated in the operation of the M16/AR15 platform, and dust from the range environment. Cleaning the rifle was simplified exponentially.

I have never had to clean the gas piston assembly and there is only a hint of carbon "spray" on the hand guard heat shield directly above the piston. Additionally there was markedly less gas "in the face" as any gas escaping the piston assembly does so underneath the hand guard.

The bolt was cool to the touch even after several magazines at rapid fire. The gas block/ front sight assembly and hand guard was not noticeably warmer when using this system. I have heard, anecdotally, that the gas escaping the piston under the hand guard can cause heat blooms in thermal sights, however we do not use this technology and, of course, noticed no adverse effect when the rifle was fitted with nigh vision behind the EOTech. No discernible difference was noted in accuracy, recoil, flash or report.

As I mentioned before, the rifle was like new. It had not been issued and had less than 100 rounds through it. The inside of the upper receiver had no wear on it at all and was fully anodized. We have watched it closely and it currently exhibits no wear whatever after 3000+ rounds.

While it is not a consideration since Osprey went with a one-piece BCG with the final version, we have seen no loosening of the gas key replacement and it was checked with a torque wrench and still maintains the proscribed torque setting.

Loads used were Winchester 55 grain FMJ, Black Hills 55 grain FMJ, and Hornady 55 grain TAP Urban. Magazines were Lancer 20 round, Colt 20 round, U.S. Military issued 30 round, and Magpul P-Mag 30 round. No drum type magazines were used. No sound suppression devices were used.

Based on the results of the T&E, the firearms program at our department has suggested retrofitting all of our Colt AR-15 A2 Government Carbines with this system. The suggestion has been taken under consideration by administration and no decision has been made yet.

I plan on purchasing one for my personally owned carbine. Of course your mileage may vary, but I hope someone finds this information useful in making a purchasing decision.
 
excellent review; this is standard though, for the osprey replacement- they are that good. They have no negative reviews at all that I know about, only good ones.
As to the questioners about why use a piston drive- my answer is simple; heat.
The above dude mentioned it briefly when he said, after firing several mags, that several diff parts where touchable. you could never do this with a gi AR.
And I don't care if you make the coolest , bestist, baddaasssist, metal thingies in the world; heat will eventually break them all down. heat is the worst prob of a gi AR, and this removes a bunch of that prob.

The fact that they run almost totally clean, is super good iceing on the cake!!!
 
RevolverMan567 asked:
why?
whats the major advantage of the gas piston over the direct impingement system already in place, except cleaner? inquiring minds want to know

Well, besides being cleaner as mentioned in the great post by w12Code3 there is another benefit.

This type of piston drive alters how recoil is experienced by the shooter. For want of a better term.. it's "straighter". Granted, this is purely subjective on my part, BUT I've had nearly a dozen people fire this weapon (moderately tricked YHM Spectre) alongside a standard Spectre and they amazed about how quick accurate reengagement is between shots.

Both rifles have PWS FSC556 muzzle brakes on them. Both have Sprinco "red" springs and H1 buffers and Timney 4 lb single stage triggers.

Best test of all was a friend of mines wife, who was terrified of AR's in general, gave it a go..... I'm building her a rifle even as we speak.

Can't say enough good things about this system. The ONLY downside to it is that it isn't adjustable. But, that's ok, cuz I don't own or plan to own a suppressor.
 
The adjustability issue was brought up during the T&E and my thought on the issue are as follows. We do not, nor do we plan to every use suppressors; these rifles are patrol rifles issued to regular cops, not "operators" (God I hate that word). Giving them a knob to mess around with that could very accidentally easily turn the rifle into the world's most awkward bolt action is, in my opinion, a liability. K.I.S.S. definitely applies here in my estimation.

To be honest, I did not notice a marked difference in the quantity or quality of the recoil, but I am a pretty big guy and controlling the AR was never a big issue for me anyhow. I suppose it could make a difference in full-auto but again this was not a consideration for us. Maybe I will take one of our small, light weight officers to the range and have them do a side by side comparison and see if they notice a difference.
 
The only way I can figure you could "adjust" this system is with an adjustable gas block like the one JP Engineering makes. It may not be a perfect solution but it's workable.

w12code3 ... I assume your a "working cop" instead of a retired has-been like me :).

Best people I had to test my ideas on were small officers/friends. If they could make it crank.. anyone could.

A dumb story.. I have a buddy who is the second or third strongest man in Wisconsin (ameteur power lifter) and he's a LEO in a small community here in central WI. He's 6'5" tall and weighs in at 429 lbs! He one hands my Saiga12 w/ 3 inch magnums in it and wonders "how come you can't huh?"

My girlfriend is 5'6" and barely 120lbs and has to grab hold of that shotgun with both hands "and throw my damned leg over it too!" in order to control it during rapid fire w/ magnums.

So using that same premise I asked the smallest people I knew to try this system out before I let the "big guys" try it.
 
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None that I've been able to detect. Granted I've only had a little over 3k rounds through my rifle since the modification so time will tell.

A bit of silly info about this kit. It got chosen hands down winner of the "chick shooters league" at one of the gun clubs I belong too. Had it set up alongside an Adams Arms and Bushmaster retrofit kit equipped rifles and encouraged a few of my friends wives to "give it a try". They really liked how it felt versus the other piston setups.

Food for thought... obviously it wasn't a scientific experiment , purely a subjective one. but anything that gets the wives out on the range makes things less difficult for the rest of us when it comes time to "get a new toy".
 
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