just pulled the trigger on my first trade gun :)

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midland man

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I just ordered a new trade gun from muzzleloader shop in Arkansas. its a petite fusil de chasse 20g/62c smoothbore. and these are india guns but the touch holes are drilled and he said they are proofed so should be good to go! so I will have to start saving for my next purchase as I still want a 36 caliber flintlock rifle for some challenging squirrel hunts next fall season! but next week if ups is quick to deliver, I look forward to some squirrel hunting with this trade gun! so am excited as I been wanting one of these for a long while! https://www.muzzleloadershop.com/factory-guns/loyalist-arms/
 
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Congrats and good luck with your new long gun.

I got my long land pattern 1756 Dublin castle Bess, which is also a Loyalist import, from the muzzleloader shop in Arkansas. This was maybe 4 years ago at the Little Rock shop before Mr. Reber moved to Berryville and opened his other location there. I live in Little Rock, so I still go to the local shop for powder and supplies. I've been totally pleased with my Bess and hope you have the same experience.

Cheers
 
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Thank you for this thread. I visited Mr. Reber when he lived in North Little Rock and I’m grateful to learn his new location snd website.

For those of you who have not met him, Dykes Reber has forgotten more about blackpowder guns than I will ever know, and he is a gentleman to boot.
 
This is Mike's 1st video loading shot where he explains and then shows why he loads so much shot and powder in the 20 ga..
His testing has found that square loads of powder & shot simply do not pattern as well as heavier loads do from a cylinder bore.
I have found the same to be true with my BP shotguns.
I load my 28 ga. with loads that rival modern 12 gauge hunting loads.
I also use compressed balls of newspaper instead of flat paper wads, but otherwise not too much different.
However I have used plastic shotshell wads which can also dramatically improve patterns.
But with a cylinder choke larger shot loads are almost a must.
At very close range, a person can always aim to the side of a squirrel to not pepper it with too much shot and to only hit it with the fringe of the shot pattern.
Only a single ball of #6 shot to the head, or 1-3 balls to the lungs or chest are usually enough to kill a squirrel.
A single #6 shot can break a leg bone and anchor it on the ground, especially if hit on the underside.
Here Mike shows the dramatic difference between loading 72 grains of powder and 1 oz. of #6 shot vs. 100 grains of powder and 2 ozs. of #6 shot @ 35 yards.
2 oz. of #6's is the hands down winner @ 35 yards and even beyond from a cylinder bore.

 
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Midland man I overlooked the link in your first post. I looked at the gun you ordered and thats exactly the one I would have ordered and close to the one I linked to in my thread on Military Heritage Arms Chiefs trade Gun with the shorter barrel.

Arcticap I have watched those and several others of his videos. I would like to go shoot with Mike. I bet he is a hoot. He used to post here and on TFL but I haven't seen him in a while.
 
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If I could have just one MLing long gun it would be a Trade Gun. The smoothbore allows shot or RB. And because of the thinner barrel they're lighter. Fifteen or so years ago a couple of us put rear sights on our TGs and shot the rifle matches in the local walk-throughs. We did quite well. I think back in the day they called that a smooth rifle. But maybe those had a octagon barrel and looked like a rifle. Mine, which was a 12ga I had made, shot better loading it like a shotgun - powder, wad, ball, and OS card. No patch. Don't ask me. Anyways, I'm sure you will enjoy shooting it. Good luck.
 
so guys I was wondering reading some history on Wikipedia as I would like to know was there shorter fusil de chasse guns made being the longer one was a bit heavy to carry? so in other words is this shorter one period correct?
 
"the dramatic difference between loading 72 grains of powder and 1 oz. of #6 shot vs. 100 grains of powder and 2 ozs. of #6 shot @ 35 yards.
2 oz. of #6's is the hands down winner @ 35 yards and even beyond from a cylinder bore."

I imagine there is a "DRAMATIC" difference in recoil to the shoulder as well. That is A LOT of lead and powder.
 
I bet as I have loaded in my double barrel 10g bp shotgun I have loaded 100grs 1f bp and 2 1/4ozs of shot trust me you know it once fired! ;)
 
I don't think that the larger load will be unpleasant to shoot.
My 28 ga. is lightweight in the 5-6 lb. range, and it doesn't hurt and I'm sensitive to felt recoil.
I've loaded it with at least 1.5 ozs. of shot and 90-100 grains of powder without any pain.
Although I have used a slip on rubber buttpad on it.
Being much heavier and having a larger bore, I would think that it won't cause discomfort.
I would just check the fit of the stock where it mates with the tang and the barrel to make sure
there's no open space there to cause cracking of the wood.
Any space can be bedded to prevent cracking.
And a 2 oz. load can be toned down to 1.5 ozs. - 1.75 ozs. , more or less.

Every gun will shoot differently and if you're only hunting squirrels, the power is more important than the pattern.
It's not like you're hunting turkey or ducks.
There's trade-offs that can be made based on experimentation.
Felt wads, cushioned wads, home made paper shot cups with slits in them, or even plastic shot gun wads
can all be tried out to improve patterning without loading as much shot.
That's the drawback of having a barrel with an open cylinder choke.
It's not quite the same as a fowler with a built in choke constriction.

Lastly, we don't know where Mike was aiming at in the video when his gun fired, if he was aiming high or low, left or right, after the ignition.
If your Fusil has a rifle type sight which it appears that it does, and it shoots to the point of aim, then that can help direct the pattern too to help reduce the amount of shot.
On the other hand, if it doesn't shoot to the point of aim of the sights, then you will need to use some Kentucky windage beyond a certain distance.

Don't worry about shooting maximum loads right away.
Work up the loads gradually until you find the one that you have confidence in and feel comfortable with.
But you should not feel any discomfort with that Fusil.
Black powder has a much softer pressure curve than modern guns.
If you have a 10 gauge double, I'm surprised that you're not squirreling with it
(although I imagine that it's because it's not a flintlock).
 
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the trigger pull is very nice and I like this musket also I am impressed as to this is what pour ancestors used to survive with as its really beefy and thick in the wrist but otherwise comfortable to hold and shoot!
 
Well, then you're doomed.... for if you hadn't been bitten by the "flintlock bug", you are smitten now fur sur! I have the Early English Trade Gun from them, so if you need to compare load data and notes, you can ask here or PM me. There are also "smooth bore hacks" that you can do with a cylinder bore gun to give you a bit more range, rather than the obvious of doubling the shot quantity. ;).

LD
 
Well, then you're doomed.... for if you hadn't been bitten by the "flintlock bug", you are smitten now fur sur! I have the Early English Trade Gun from them, so if you need to compare load data and notes, you can ask here or PM me. There are also "smooth bore hacks" that you can do with a cylinder bore gun to give you a bit more range, rather than the obvious of doubling the shot quantity. ;). Yup he is indeed doomed. Tell me about your smooth bore hacks, pleeease!

LD
 
There are several. First, learn how to make paper cartridges.

You use book paper from a cheap book bought at the dollar store, and make a pre-loaded powder charge cartridges. You do the same thing with newsprint, and make cartridges that holds only the shot. So..., you tear open the the powder cartridge, dump it, then invert the now empty paper tube an stuff it into the muzzle, then ram it down to make a "wad". (some guys just toss the paper and use a fiber wad). Then you gently load the newsprint with the shot, intact and not torn open, down the barrel with the ramrod, seating it against whatever wad you used. It's very quick. Then prime and close your pan. Ready to shoot again.

You will want to make the paper cartridges from book paper so they just fit into your muzzle, and you can use these insted of a patch for your round ball. Patches don't fold the say way twice, but using a paper cartridge as a "shot cup" for a single ball fits the same way every time. ;)

Using the same thicker paper from a book instead of newsprint, make a cup for your shot, and heat up the shot cartridge holding the shot in the oven to about 170 degrees, then pour a 50/50 mix of melted beeswax and shortening over the shot in the cup and allow this to cool and harden. You have then a replica of a historic, "wax round" which were used to sorta tighten shot patterns. The pre-heating helps the wax/shortening mixture flow throughout the cartridge before it hardens.

Some guys instead of the wax rounds, today will do the same thing, but instead of heating them up and pouring in wax, they simply pour in some dry, Jiffy brand corn muffin mix, and tap on the paper tube with the shot to help the dry corn muffin mix settle among the shot pellets. :confused: WIERD yeah I know, but some guys swear by the stuff, and have tried plain cornmeal and don't get the same effect.

Bottom line is you have to pattern your gun and learn what it's doing....

LD
 
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