This tradgic but do you blame the driver for his actions?
http://www.wftv.com/news/4729041/detail.html
http://www.wftv.com/news/4729041/detail.html
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Justice served?
- Thread starter AK-74me
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I don't really understand that comment but....
Of course legally it is not but lets just make it ok for kids to do stuff like that?
Could of turned out alot worse though and many innocent people could of died in a car wreck caused by this kids stupidity.
What if they hadn't caught the one kid and beat him but were just trying to get the little effer to hold for the police? Any different then?
No force was used. the guys jumped out of their car and chased the kids who had just shot bottle-rockets at thier car. The kid ran in front of the car while being chased. Mind is was well after midnight. The guys who chased them didn't leave the scene. It seems to be a case of Darwin thinning the herd.
cracked butt
Member
12 year olds
bottle rockets
after midnight
The kids didn't deserve what happened to them, though their parents deserve a beat down.
bottle rockets
after midnight
The kids didn't deserve what happened to them, though their parents deserve a beat down.
gunsmith
member
Tyrone should keep his hands off kids!
22yr old men shouldn't be beating 12 yr old boys.
The bottle rocket obviously isn't really going to hurt anyone (I've had them blow up in my hand when I was 12)
The worse that could've happened was a car accident but that didn't happen...they should have notified the cops and let the professionals apprehend them.
Maybe if Tyrone hadn't been beating the other 12yr old the one that got killed wouldn't have run.
Don't kill little boys for being little boys!
22yr old men shouldn't be beating 12 yr old boys.
The bottle rocket obviously isn't really going to hurt anyone (I've had them blow up in my hand when I was 12)
The worse that could've happened was a car accident but that didn't happen...they should have notified the cops and let the professionals apprehend them.
Maybe if Tyrone hadn't been beating the other 12yr old the one that got killed wouldn't have run.
Don't kill little boys for being little boys!
carebear
Member
I've been 12, I woulda run if I was being chased for being an idiot.
Doubt I would've run into traffic though, I may have done stupid pranks but I know where NOT to run.
Doubt I would've run into traffic though, I may have done stupid pranks but I know where NOT to run.
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Kamicosmos
Member
The worst part of this, and the person that is really going to be messed up over this, is the 17 year old girl that hit and killed the boy.
O.F.Fascist
Member
Karma's a bitch.
El Tejon
Member
Stupid hurts?
MikeIsaj
Member
Don't feel sorry for anyone, except the 17 year old driver.
1. Should a 12 y.o. be out after midnight unsupervised? No.
2. Does a bottle rocket present a threat of death or serious bodily injury to a person in a moving car? No.
3. Was the 22y.o. moron justified in assaulting the 12 y.o. moron? No.
4. Was it reasonable for the 22y.o. moron to pursue the 12y.o. moron? No.
5. Was the use of force justified? No.
6. Should the surviving moron be held accountable for the death? Yes.
7. Should the parents of the 12y.o. moron share some of the burden? Yes.
You have to pick and choose your fights. Attacking a 12y.o. over a bottle rocket is not a wise choice.
1. Should a 12 y.o. be out after midnight unsupervised? No.
2. Does a bottle rocket present a threat of death or serious bodily injury to a person in a moving car? No.
3. Was the 22y.o. moron justified in assaulting the 12 y.o. moron? No.
4. Was it reasonable for the 22y.o. moron to pursue the 12y.o. moron? No.
5. Was the use of force justified? No.
6. Should the surviving moron be held accountable for the death? Yes.
7. Should the parents of the 12y.o. moron share some of the burden? Yes.
You have to pick and choose your fights. Attacking a 12y.o. over a bottle rocket is not a wise choice.
Old Dog
Member
Yes. Most certainly. Beating on a 12-year-old boy and then chasing him into traffic ... Because he shot a bottle rocket at/near my car? How about simply pulling over, trying to get a description of the kid and dialing 911?
"Justice served?" Not even close. Shooting bottle rockets at cars is stupid, criminal and possibly could cause serious accidents ... but it's not worthy of a death sentence.
carebear
Member
Wait a minute, you're actually saying things have gotten to the point where you can't chase a punk kid down to yell at them for being a dangerous idiot?
The guy needs to go down on assault if he actually BEAT the kid but when I was 12 I would fully expected to be run down and grabbed by the ear by an older male and have my stupidity "explained" to me in forceful terms and probably be frog-marched home to face my father's wrath.
One kid was caught by the passenger and was "beaten". If he was truly being pummelled the passenger was out of line and should be charged, but we have no description of his real injuries. It would not, in my view, have been unreasonable for a pre-teen (not a "child") to be cuffed around a little to emphasize the talking to, which would be a stretch to call an "assault" in any real way.
The other kid wasn't hit at ALL but chose to run into traffic to escape responsibility from the driver or potentially the cops for his actions.
As far as bottle rockets being harmless, do you think you might swerve, maybe crash, if things start hitting your car and exploding in the middle of the night. This is not a "harmless prank" and shouldn't be winked at anymore than throwing ANYTHING at cars on a roadway. (People die cause stuff gets tossed off of overpasses for "fun" by kids)
Should children not be confronted with the seriousness of their actions when caught by adults, any adults? I'm not sure what kind of cretin I would have become if I didn't view every adult as a potential chastiser when I was growing up and being bad but I can't imagine it would have been good for my moral development. Worst case I certainly wouldn't have learned to be as sneaky.
The guy needs to go down on assault if he actually BEAT the kid but when I was 12 I would fully expected to be run down and grabbed by the ear by an older male and have my stupidity "explained" to me in forceful terms and probably be frog-marched home to face my father's wrath.
One kid was caught by the passenger and was "beaten". If he was truly being pummelled the passenger was out of line and should be charged, but we have no description of his real injuries. It would not, in my view, have been unreasonable for a pre-teen (not a "child") to be cuffed around a little to emphasize the talking to, which would be a stretch to call an "assault" in any real way.
The other kid wasn't hit at ALL but chose to run into traffic to escape responsibility from the driver or potentially the cops for his actions.
As far as bottle rockets being harmless, do you think you might swerve, maybe crash, if things start hitting your car and exploding in the middle of the night. This is not a "harmless prank" and shouldn't be winked at anymore than throwing ANYTHING at cars on a roadway. (People die cause stuff gets tossed off of overpasses for "fun" by kids)
Should children not be confronted with the seriousness of their actions when caught by adults, any adults? I'm not sure what kind of cretin I would have become if I didn't view every adult as a potential chastiser when I was growing up and being bad but I can't imagine it would have been good for my moral development. Worst case I certainly wouldn't have learned to be as sneaky.
Don Gwinn
Moderator Emeritus
I'm not buying that one. Do you ever roll down your windows? You think somebody distracted by a cell phone is bad, how about a driver who just had a bottle rocket explode next to his head?
But yeah, the adult geniuses sealed their fate when they started beating the kid they caught. WAY over the line. Even in the "good old days" when everybody in town was always watching your kids for the slightest step out of line (days that never really ended around here) nobody would countenance adults going around handing out beatings on t3h str33t.
A bottle rocket fired at a car could be bad-at a motorcycle, it could be real bad. Damn skippy I'd chase the little booger. If for no other reason than to scare him. I wouldn't hit him, but I'd scare him half to death. On second thought, a guy who looks like me chasing a 12 year old could look real bad to a bystander not familiar with the situation. I could end up with a new hole in my anatomy from a CWCer or in the local slam for attempted kidnapping. Lose/lose for me, hmmmm?
Biker
Biker
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
Keeping in mind that we know nothing beyond the article: Assume you're back at age 12 or so, and you go from having fun at what seems like a harmless prank to suddenly having Big Guys jump out and try to grab you. Your buddy is actually caught and being "beaten"--which means he's probably yelling in pain and terror.
You're scared as all get out, and here comes the adrenalin.
Now: How many times have we commented here at THR about gunfights and adrenalin? "Tunnel vision" and all that?
That kid's only thought was "Away!" Flight reflex. Tunnel vision. I doubt he even had the first iota of thought about "street" or "cars" or anything beyond escape. There's no rational way you can fault that very-scared 12-year-old kid.
There were several options available to those 22-year-old guys. They chose the wrong ones.
Art
You're scared as all get out, and here comes the adrenalin.
Now: How many times have we commented here at THR about gunfights and adrenalin? "Tunnel vision" and all that?
That kid's only thought was "Away!" Flight reflex. Tunnel vision. I doubt he even had the first iota of thought about "street" or "cars" or anything beyond escape. There's no rational way you can fault that very-scared 12-year-old kid.
There were several options available to those 22-year-old guys. They chose the wrong ones.
Art
carebear
Member
Art,
Having been 12 and pulled off some pretty sketchy stuff, I'm going to continue to disagree with blaming the car guys in any way for the traffic death.
Having been 12 and pulled off some pretty sketchy stuff, I'm going to continue to disagree with blaming the car guys in any way for the traffic death.
A car stopped, and passenger Tyrone Sherrod got out, chased the cousin and started beating him, Alexander said.
Unless the "beating" was really the use of reasonable force to restrain the kid so that he could be turned over to police, that doesn't sound legally justified.
Do I personally consider it justified? It depends on how seriously he beat the kid? The kids actions were extremely foolish and could easily have resulted in a serious accident and harmed people. In my opinion he deserved a bit of a beating.
I have a hard time blaming Haley for the death of the 12 year old, who ran out into traffic. It depends a lot on the specifics of the situation. Did Haley's actions force the kid into traffic, or did he just run out into traffic to evade being caught.
The stupidity of running out into traffic to avoid being caught cannot be blamed on the persuer, unless the persuer was making a clear threat to the kids life.
My sincere sympathy to the 17 year old girl who was driving the car that killed the 12 year old.
Unless the "beating" was really the use of reasonable force to restrain the kid so that he could be turned over to police, that doesn't sound legally justified.
Do I personally consider it justified? It depends on how seriously he beat the kid? The kids actions were extremely foolish and could easily have resulted in a serious accident and harmed people. In my opinion he deserved a bit of a beating.
I have a hard time blaming Haley for the death of the 12 year old, who ran out into traffic. It depends a lot on the specifics of the situation. Did Haley's actions force the kid into traffic, or did he just run out into traffic to evade being caught.
The stupidity of running out into traffic to avoid being caught cannot be blamed on the persuer, unless the persuer was making a clear threat to the kids life.
My sincere sympathy to the 17 year old girl who was driving the car that killed the 12 year old.
Beren
Moderator Emeritus
"Manslaughter, sometimes called criminally negligent homicide, is a kind of homicide wherein a person causes the death of another through negligence or recklessness (not recognized in Australia) or where a person intentionally kills another but is not liable for murder because he is able to avail himself of a defense, such as insanity or diminished capacity."
"Recklessness in terms of criminal law usually recognizes either (a) that a perpetrator, aware of the potential adverse consequences of his actions, has gone ahead with doing them anyway, even without directly intending harm; or (b) has entirely closed his mind to risk which he ought to be aware of."
(Thanks wikipedia.)
One could easily argue that the older kids were reckless in their actions when they stopped to chase the kids with the intent of battering them. Yeah, the little idiots shouldn't have been out there in the first place firing off bottle rockets (will the parents be charged? they were arguably negligent in the care of their children!) but the men will have a hard time justifying why they stopped to chase the kids down and beat one of them. (IF "beat" is what happened, and not "restrained.")
Why not just keep driving if the car was undamaged, and call the cops? Or, if one wanted to be proactive in getting the little snots their deserved punishment, circle around, call the cops, and keep an eye on them until the cops get there? If the car was damaged, then it would be entirely reasonable for them to stop. It'd even seem reasonable to stop to CHECK for damage.
Anyway, I was there, but it seems like the guys are going to have a rough time in the courtroom.
"Recklessness in terms of criminal law usually recognizes either (a) that a perpetrator, aware of the potential adverse consequences of his actions, has gone ahead with doing them anyway, even without directly intending harm; or (b) has entirely closed his mind to risk which he ought to be aware of."
(Thanks wikipedia.)
One could easily argue that the older kids were reckless in their actions when they stopped to chase the kids with the intent of battering them. Yeah, the little idiots shouldn't have been out there in the first place firing off bottle rockets (will the parents be charged? they were arguably negligent in the care of their children!) but the men will have a hard time justifying why they stopped to chase the kids down and beat one of them. (IF "beat" is what happened, and not "restrained.")
Why not just keep driving if the car was undamaged, and call the cops? Or, if one wanted to be proactive in getting the little snots their deserved punishment, circle around, call the cops, and keep an eye on them until the cops get there? If the car was damaged, then it would be entirely reasonable for them to stop. It'd even seem reasonable to stop to CHECK for damage.
Anyway, I was there, but it seems like the guys are going to have a rough time in the courtroom.
Art,
"That kid's only thought was "Away!" Flight reflex. Tunnel vision. I doubt he even had the first iota of thought about "street" or "cars" or anything beyond escape. There's no rational way you can fault that very-scared 12-year-old kid."
Even if I agree with you on that point, which would require me having more details about the situation than I have, that doesn't meant that the blame for his actions falls on the heads of the 22 year old guys.
There actions would have to be pretty extreme, and the kids options pretty slim for them to expect that chasing the kid would put his life at risk.
It all comes down to kids being responsible for their actions, and the young adults being responsible for their own actions.
It's very unlikely that Haley could have reasonably expected the kid to react by running in front of a moving car.
Sherrod may very well be guilty of assaulting a minor, and should pay the appropriate price for doing so.
Chasing a kid who is engaged in a criminal act is not a crime, and we don't know if he would have assaulted the kid because he didn't catch him before the kid's actions led to his own death.
Fleeing the scene of the crime was foolish, and they'll likely pay a price for that foolishness. That price should not be even being charged with manslaugther.
They are not responsible for the unreasonable responses of others to their actions, only reactions that they could reasonably forsee.
"That kid's only thought was "Away!" Flight reflex. Tunnel vision. I doubt he even had the first iota of thought about "street" or "cars" or anything beyond escape. There's no rational way you can fault that very-scared 12-year-old kid."
Even if I agree with you on that point, which would require me having more details about the situation than I have, that doesn't meant that the blame for his actions falls on the heads of the 22 year old guys.
There actions would have to be pretty extreme, and the kids options pretty slim for them to expect that chasing the kid would put his life at risk.
It all comes down to kids being responsible for their actions, and the young adults being responsible for their own actions.
It's very unlikely that Haley could have reasonably expected the kid to react by running in front of a moving car.
Sherrod may very well be guilty of assaulting a minor, and should pay the appropriate price for doing so.
Chasing a kid who is engaged in a criminal act is not a crime, and we don't know if he would have assaulted the kid because he didn't catch him before the kid's actions led to his own death.
Fleeing the scene of the crime was foolish, and they'll likely pay a price for that foolishness. That price should not be even being charged with manslaugther.
They are not responsible for the unreasonable responses of others to their actions, only reactions that they could reasonably forsee.
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
i'd like to get a clearer explanation of the 'beating' dished out.
was it a ****-slap? if so, thats not a beating.
was it a strike to ge the bottle rockets out of the kids hands? if so, thats not a beating.
was it a clothesline takedown followed by bouncing the kids head off the sidewalk? if so, yeah thats a beating.
some kids were throwing snowballs at cars in my neighborhood last winter. i turned around and pursued them. scared the snot out of the kids, but they didnt do it anymore after that.
i dont see this as 'kids being kids, oh those darn kids do the darndest things!' its a lack of respect. what kept those in my generation from doing such stupid acts? our parents beat the crap out of us when we did stupid things.
was it a ****-slap? if so, thats not a beating.
was it a strike to ge the bottle rockets out of the kids hands? if so, thats not a beating.
was it a clothesline takedown followed by bouncing the kids head off the sidewalk? if so, yeah thats a beating.
some kids were throwing snowballs at cars in my neighborhood last winter. i turned around and pursued them. scared the snot out of the kids, but they didnt do it anymore after that.
i dont see this as 'kids being kids, oh those darn kids do the darndest things!' its a lack of respect. what kept those in my generation from doing such stupid acts? our parents beat the crap out of us when we did stupid things.
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