Justification for war??!!

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DonQatU

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Bush repeatedly justified the war as necessary to remove Iraq's weapons of mass destruction that he said posed a direct threat to the United States. But so far the United States has failed to find any chemical or biological weapons almost a month after toppling Saddam's government.

Don
 
Failure to Find Saddam Proves He Never Existed

(2003-05-03) -- Six weeks after the invasion of Iraq, Pentagon officials are quietly beginning to acknowledge that their failure to find Saddam Hussein may be proof that the Iraqi leader never existed.

"We hate to admit it," said one unnamed official, "One of our main reasons for going in there was regime change. You know...overthrow a brutal dictator who tortured his own people. But at this point, we're not sure there ever was a Saddam Hussein. After all, if we don't have him dead or alive...who's to say?"

The military official said that the statues, murals and videos of Saddam Hussein are "circumstantial evidence which don't prove anything."

"I try to look on the bright side," he added. "Maybe we'll luck out and find a few chemical weapons so the war won't have been a total waste."

Experts agree that evidence of actual atrocities against Iraqis lacks the news value that potential atrocities against Westerners would have.

http://www.scrappleface.com/
 
You know, immediately after 9/11, we would have been justified to carpet bomb Kabul, Bagdad, Damascus, and Riyadh. Or even use nuclear weapons. But we didn't. We took the hard road of doing what we did and minimizing civilian casualties, at loss of life to American soldiers. So quit whining. :rolleyes: If you have a better solution, run for office. :rolleyes:
 
Yeah of course any weapons of mass destruction held by saddam hussein would pose a threat to the us. follow me on this one for a minute folks. Can you imagine what would happen if there were no more oil in the united states. there would be pandimonium. our society relies entirely on oil. how did you get your groceries? they were brought to the supermarket by a truck that got there only because the was petroleum products that enabled this. without oil our society would shuit down. the economy would collapse and the people who had the most bullets and guns would be the ones eating. I know this sounds extreme but take a few minutes to think about the nature of our society dependance on oil. protesters say no war for oil. that is naive because if we don't fight to maintain stability in a region that has a major portion of the world's oil we won't have a nation to protect because our society would implode on itsself. If saddam hussein was in power with a nuclear weapon he could effectively control the entire middle eastern region and thereby control us. we can't have that. if you disagree with me at least do me the favor of thinking about this for a couple of minutes before you start flaming me.
 
Yeah, Don, why...:rolleyes: Gee, 3,000 dead Americans. Who cares? They're not worth, gasp!, retaliation, are they? After all, we should have just "understood" those terroris---er, I mean to say, freedom fighters and given them everything they wanted. In fact, we should have gone further and helped them destroy Israel. Yeah, what justification is there for a war of self-defense? In fact, Don, I am concerned that you, as a possible gun owner (I assume you might be since you're on this board) might one day accidently kill an attacker in self-defense. That would lead to lots of negative vibrations and hurt an innocent criminal who had all the right in the world to attack you and steal your stuff because he felt like it. So, sell all your guns to the next "buy back" program in your city so that doesn't happen. Because, as you've so eloquently expressed here, nothing is worth fighting for. :rolleyes:

Don, are you just quoting Mother Jones verbatim? :rolleyes:
 
Don:

We do not need to "justify" this war to anyone by shoving WMD in their face.

The whole frickin' world, yes, even (actually, ESPECIALLY) france, knows exactly what saddam has and how much of it.

Unless you want to try to argue that the 14 UN resolutions requiring saddam to disarm were referring to his abundant supply of twinkie filling.

And for the sake of this conversation, let's just forget about:

- The underground nuclear facility we found. Whether the UN knew about it or not is irrelevant: Iraq has it. You should ask france in particular about it: they are the ones who sold the reactor to saddam, along with another one that was blown up by the israelis in the 80's.

Don, why would a country with some of the largest oil reserves on this planet need a nuclear reactor? :scrutiny:

- The banned missiles we found

- Approximately 3,000 or so chemical protection suits.

Don, if a country doesn't have any chemical weapons, why would they need chemical protection suits?

- Chemical/bio decontamination rooms at the entrances to several bunkers.

- "pesticide" factories. Yeah, "pesticide"....that's right... :scrutiny: :rolleyes:


Let's see if you can wrap your mind around this, Don:

There can be and ARE more than one reason for this war. *gasp!*

WMD is just one reason.

Chew on this and I'll leave:

Since saddam has repeatedly broken cease-fire agreements, we are MORE than justified in going to war with him. There's ANOTHER reason.

Breaking a cease-fire = War is back on.

Game on! :D
 
*DING DING!!!*

Jerry wins a prize!!!

There's yet ANOTHER reason for this war:

Saddam could very easily disrupt the oil supply to a heck of a lot of the rest of the world.

It is a fact that we get only about 2% of our oil from iraq. Yeah, its all about American interest in oil, yessir...:rolleyes:

If anything, we are doing the rest of the world a HUGE favor with this war. Imagine if the rest of the world had a drastic oil shortage because saddam invaded saudi arabia. BIG problem.

Hey don, since Canada is the first(?) second(?) supplier of oil to the US, guess who we're invading next? :rolleyes:
 
It is a fact that we get only about 2% of our oil from iraq. Yeah, its all about American interest in oil, yessir...

It not really about numbers, Drjones. The Persian Gulf is only about 10% of our oil, total. ANWAR and more from the Gulf of Mexico, Canadian oil shale, etc. could easily cover this along with some increased mileage standards for cars.

The real deal is most of the rest of the world is held hostage to the Middle East for THEIR oil. If the rest of the world's economy impoldes, then so does ours. We could already get an inkling of this by the kid glove treatment the UN was trying to give Saddam. A global economy means we're vulnerable on more than one front; we may cover our own logistics, yet take a hit economically from the actions of middle eastern oil thugs.
 
You know, immediately after 9/11, we would have been justified to carpet bomb Kabul, Bagdad, Damascus, and Riyadh.
Ah, no we wouldn't have been justfied in doing that. You might as well say that in the wake of the Murrah Building explosion, we would have been justified in carpet bombing Idaho.

why would a country with some of the largest oil reserves on this planet need a nuclear reactor?
Well, maybe they want to produce power with a cleaner and more efficient source, and save the oil for profitable sale.

The banned missiles we found
...without warheads. The fact that they we're 'banned' is simply meaningless UN tripe. They had a range well under 1,000 miles, and could not possibly have been a threat to the US.

Approximately 3,000 or so chemical protection suits
Chem suits are used in a heck of a lot more than weapons labs. Or is Iraq prohibited from using pesticide on crops?

Chemical/bio decontamination rooms at the entrances to several bunkers
Maybe they were worried about being invaded. Since they probably have as low an opinion of us as we have of them, they probably half expected to be hit with chem or bio weapons themselves. Look at bunkers in any country on the planet and I'll bet a lot of them have such decomtaminating systems.

Saddam could very easily disrupt the oil supply to a heck of a lot of the rest of the world.
What, by conquering the Saudi oil wells and refusing to sell the oil? Sorry if I find that possibility a bit loony. The Middle East doesn't have a monopoly on oil production in the first place.

There can be and ARE more than one reason for this war.
And they always seem to boil down to "Them thar Saddam looked cross-eyed at Bush!" Since when is the US supposed to be the world's policeman? Behaving like this is precisely why so many countries in the Middle East hate our guts. We can enforce our will (as Bush has proved) pretty easily - but this does nothing to changes the motives of the people were worried about. If anything, it strengthens their antipathy. If we rely on military force to solve the problem, then we must keep using that force perpetually, because the moment we turn our backs, some revenge-obsessed faction is going to do their best to hurt us. Maintaining order by force is an unstable equilibrium. Keep in mind that these people have proven that they are quite willing to die in order to hurt us. Do you really think that a show of force will dissuade them? It will drive their government support farther underground, but it won't do a thing to remove the motives for the attacks upon us.
 
Well, maybe they want to produce power with a cleaner and more efficient source, and save the oil for profitable sale.

MUST....STOP....LAUGHING.... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Yeah, and Bill Gates clips coupons to save a few bucks... :rolleyes:

...without warheads. The fact that they we're 'banned' is simply meaningless UN tripe. They had a range well under 1,000 miles, and could not possibly have been a threat to the US.
Banned is banned. Period.

Ian, exactly how many US Citizens need to die before you'll care?

Do you really think that a show of force will dissuade them?

Exactly how many terrorist attacks have we had since we invaded Afghanistan and now iraq? :scrutiny:

Terrorist groups need money and other forms of support.

By destroying the support centers as best we can, we cripple them.

Ian, do you agree that in this situation, saddam is the bad guy and Bush is the good guy? :scrutiny:
 
Banned is banned. Period.
I bet you'd change your tune if the UN banned your shotgun. In my eyes, the UN has no authority, over me or over Iraq or over anyone else but the UN itself.

Ian, exactly how many US Citizens need to die before you'll care?
You imply that a opposition to an invasion of Iraq equates to apathy about 9/11. This is a false dichotomy. The 9/11 attacks were carried out by individuals, who are clearly responsible for their actions. These individuals should be hunted down and punished thoroughly. But to claim that Saddam is responsible because of some tie to Al-Quida is akin to blaming First Bank for the Murrah Building bombing because they loaned money the the Militia of Montana. If Saddam was directly involved in 9/11, then let's see hard evidence of it before we go in to get him.

Terrorist groups need money and other forms of support.

By destroying the support centers as best we can, we cripple them.
Please define "support center" before we go farther.

do you agree that in this situation, saddam is the bad guy and Bush is the good guy?
Saddam and Bush are both bad guys. They both violate (generally by proxy) peoples' rights on a regular basis.

Edit: I'm off to sleep (got finals this week). I'd very much like to continue this in the morning, though, Doctor.
 
"You know, immediately after 9/11, we would have been justified to carpet bomb Kabul, Bagdad, Damascus, and Riyadh. Or even use nuclear weapons."

I will not bother to discuss whether such an action would be "justified" or not. However, such an action would violate international agreements which we are signatories to, specifically the Geneva Accords.

And doing so would make us no better than Saddam in the Iran/Iraq war. But of course, the term "double-standard" doesn't seem to exist for the Bush administration.
 
"The people who oppose the war in Iraq are such a small, freakish group that their opinions hardly seem to warrant discussion."

Yeah, just like those 2nd Amendment nuts. I mean, come on! Get with the picture people! The majority of Americans doesn't want you to own an AK-47! The opinions of that freakish gun-nut group hardly seem to warrant discussio!
 
Vlad, I dont think you are correct, and would respectfully disagree.

Nearly half of American households have a gun in them, and polls generally indicate that a majority of Americans do not want additional anti-gun legislation.

The silent majority is not a small group.

I am not sure what to make of the fact that most Americans do not want you to own an AK 47. That is probably true, but ownership of AK 47's has never been legal in the first place, has it?
 
I beg to differ. AK's are legal to own now, although many people don't seem to know it. And machineguns were legal to own without any permit or licence up until 1934.

And I wouldn't equate "owning a gun" with being pro-2nd. If it were, half the country would be voting Libertarian. :)
 
I think we had justification to bomb/invade half the countries in the Middle East before 9-11. Islamic psychos have been murdering Americans for 30 years. This has been a long time in the making. The last time we retaliated for a terrorist attack was 86? in Libya. Oh wait, there were the Tomahawk attacks in the Sudan and Afghanistan a few years ago.:rolleyes: Personally, I hope this isn't the end.
 
"Yeah, Don, why... Gee, 3,000 dead Americans. Who cares?"

OH! So it WAS the IRAQIS who took out the twin towers??! :mad:

:rolleyes: Don
 
OH! So it WAS the IRAQIS who took out the twin towers??!

Nah, just the guys who trained on their soil using several Boeing aircraft in the Iraqi inventory and Iraqi personnel as "hostages" in the scenarios.
 
"Nah, just the guys who trained on their soil using several Boeing aircraft in the Iraqi inventory and Iraqi personnel as "hostages" in the scenarios."

So, CZ-75, you have proof that the Iraqis were training Al Qaeda at Salman Pak, or did you just hear that from Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hanitty? Keep in mind, those are the guys that are still talking about the debunked Al Qaeda/Iraqi Intell meeting in Prague.

Don
 
CZ-75, are you saying that Mohammed Atta was meeting with Iraqi intell operatives in Prague when he was in Virginia Beach, FL?!!! Good trick! Is the CIA sticking with that story? I think not!

And you are also saying that you think Iraq trained the al-Qaeda highjackers at Salman Pak??!! Please tell me!

Please POST your comments and sources for the RECORD!

Curious minds must know! :rolleyes:

Don
 
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