K-31 and firing out of battery

[PotatoJudge]

I put together my first loads for my K-31 (42grns of 4064, WLR, 180 grn SMK), and while I was at it I decided to try and fire the gun out of battery. I chambered a primed case and tried firing the gun with the bolt in various not-closed positions. After 25 or so tries I gave up. The primer had a pretty good dent in it after all that, but never went off. After the first try it just had a small dent.

If anyone else is loading for their K-31 and would like to repeat this with their gun and post it, it'd be appreciated.

 

[Slamfire]

Oh my God!. It is good that the designers created a mechanism that was hard to set off out of battery. Do you have any idea of the bomb you would have created if the cartridge went off and the lugs were not engaged?!

I am aware of an accident at Oak Ridge. One of the gentlemen who were on the range were able to give a partial account. Seems a shooter was shooting with some foreign rifle. This rifle had a pressed in insert which was the hardened locking surface in the receiver. Somehow the insert got loose, and rotated with the bolt lugs. On one round the lugs had rotated the insert so the lugs were not bearing on a locking surface. As I understand the bolt went through the guy's jaw, collar bone, and ended up like 50 yards behind the firing line.

I am aware of stories of Machine gun bolts going through barns and doors when the round went off without lug engagement.

With that load, as a mimimum you would have probably blown the receiver ring, had brass particles and receiver pieces all over the place, and the bolt would have blasted out and gone far.

I do not think it is a smart idea to duplicate this.

 

[PotatoJudge]

Sorry if I didn't make it clear, but I used a primed case, not a fully loaded round. DON'T TRY THIS WITH A LOADED ROUND!! This is a "just in case I do it accidentally while shooting one day, or just wonder if it's possible" thing.

Firing a gun out of battery is bad juju, no doubt.

 

[qajaq59]

There is absolutely no need to try this, ever. A K31 has an obstructed firing pin if it is not fully closed.

 

[PotatoJudge]

The weapon's bolt is all to easily not totally locked up when pushing it forward unless an extremely healthy push is used. It is all to easy to forget to do this. When this happens a safety design prevents the weapon from firing out of battery but the firing pin does move forward and strike the primer lightly. I shudder to think what would happen if you happened to have a round in the chamber that had a super sensitive primer. This weapon makes me very uneasy and cautious about firing it.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94099

Quote and link to an old TFL thread where this was mentioned.

A K31 has an obstructed firing pin if it is not fully closed.

Not really, the movement is impeded by the open bolt which it first closes. The only time the firing pin is really obstructed is when the cocking piece is in the horizontal position.

Lastly, I put this in the reloading section and not rifle section for a reason. I'm not comfortable advocating this test unless a primed case is used.

 

[Deanimator]

Oh my God!. It is good that the designers created a mechanism that was hard to set off out of battery. Do you have any idea of the bomb you would have created if the cartridge went off and the lugs were not engaged?!

That's the advantage of the Schmidt-Rubin action design over that of a number of other straight-pull actions, the Ross in particular. The latter could be reassembled incorrectly, creating a highly dangerous condition.

 

[qajaq59]

I'm not comfortable advocating this test unless a primed case is used.

I'm not even comfortable with people trying it with a primer. As I said, "There is absolutely no need to try this, ever." What's the point of trying to get a rifle to fire with an unlocked bolt? If someone thinks there is a problem with their K31, then take it to a gunsmith and have it checked.

But this my opinion and everyone is entitled to disagree. -30-

 

[PotatoJudge]

What's the point of trying to get a rifle to fire with an unlocked bolt?

It's a common mistake with these rifles. You don't notice that you didn't push the bolt that extra 1/8-1/4 inch, aim, pull the trigger. Click, thankfully.

take it to a gunsmith and have it checked.

This is a normal feature of the gun. The gunsmith would correctly say the gun was in good working order, and this can still happen.

I'm not even comfortable with people trying it with a primer.

Then by all means don't try it, nor should anyone with similar reservations. I feel it's a perfectly safe practice, especially if the primer doesn't ignite (as it shouldn't, if it does then take the gun to your 'smith because something's not right).

 

[Moondoggie]

Thanks for posting this.

I shoot my K-31 very rarely, but was totally unaware of the potential for a problem.

I'll make sure I have the action fully locked in the future.

 

[Clark]

If I dry fire a K31, they are easy the close the bolt.
At the range, the round is not so easy to chamber, and when I pull the trigger, nothing happens.

 

[lonniemike]

Clark try chambering some unloaded resized brass to see if the brass has been resized enough.
Hard to chamber rounds are usually indicative of brass not resized enough, bullets seated out to far, and/or not pushing the operating rod forward with enough force the make the serial numbers come up to the 12 o'clock position(in a K-31).
Potatoe, this experiment has been done many many times by numerous peoples. Usually they don't know that they were part of an experiment or why the S-R didn't fire.
Trying to fire a primered only brass or loaded brass out of battery isn't the best idea, as it will stress the interrupter. If the bolt is not in full battery, an interrupter on the side of the firing mechanism will stop the firing pin from making contact with the primer. That is assuming the interruper isn't broken off or won't break off!
Y'all have all checked for cracks at the interrupter and bolt lugs, right!

If the bolt isn't in full battery, the interrupter with the firing mechcanism's weight, momentum, and spring may(usaually it will) drive the bolt into full battery which can leave a dent in the primer, or not. You'll need to check or know if the rifle is in full battery before the trigger is pulled. Otherwise you'll pull the trigger, then look and see the op rod is all the way forward. You'll see the serial numbers in the 12 o'clock position(in the K-31), and maybe you'll have a dented primer. Then you'll wonder why the gun will not fire. best-o-luck

 

[PotatoJudge]

lonniemike, are you talking about something like this?

http://p083.ezboard.com/K31-acciden...ssageboardfrm8.showMessage?topicID=5249.topic

I wasn't aware that firing like this could lead to a broken interrupter. Good to know.

 

[Plain Old Bill]

There's a way to be sure...

My bolt has writing on it (can't remember what, and I'm at work now) that sits at top dead center when the bolt is fully closed. Never had a problem, but I ALWAYS check.....