Kabooming Glocks (and not 23s either)

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http://www.theledger.com/article/20080313/NEWS/803130481/1039

WINTER HAVEN | The Police Department is ditching $38,000 worth of guns after two .45-caliber GAP Glock Model 37 pistols exploded in separate training incidents a year a part, causing minor injuries to an officer and a cadet.

"I've been around 34 years in law enforcement, and we've seen malfunctioning with guns, but never seen it explode," Police Chief Mark LeVine said.

"When I've got two guns out of 90 mess up, something's wrong."

The department has not had any problems with the guns during use in the line of duty.

The force of the explosions came down through the bottom of the guns and blew the triggers off, LeVine said.

Police Officer Frank Scianimanico, 32, and then-cadet Rodrique Jean-Louis, 20, suffered bruised fingers in the separate incidents.

As a result, the department will try an all-metal gun as a possible replacement for the plastic Glock during weapons testing Tuesday and March 20.

LeVine issued a memo Feb. 1 to his officers saying that if anyone was uncomfortable carrying the Glock they could carry a personal weapon instead, as long as the gun meets the department's requirements.

The department tried to work out a solution with Glock. The gun's Georgia-based manufacturer offered to swap out the nearly 2 1/2-year-old guns if the department paid the company $10,000.

But LeVine said that is unfair.

"I personally question if it should cost us anything at all," the chief said.

A Glock spokesman said the company is aware of the Winter Haven incidents, but hasn't had the opportunity to examine the guns yet.

"Without looking at the pistol, there's no way for us to make a determination," said Glock spokesman Carlos Guevara.



FIRST EXPLOSION

The first incident occurred in January 2007 when a Glock exploded while being used by Jean-Louis, a former cadet the department was sponsoring at the Polk Community College Kenneth C. Thompson Institute of Public Safety, which trains perspective police officers.

Department officials dismissed the incident as the fault of bad ammunition, and so did Glock.

The second incident, the one involving Scianiamancio, was this January during training at the department's shooting range at the Winter Haven Airport.

"We had another explode in the same fashion," LeVine said. "We've only got 90 guns, and two failed. It has caused a certain amount of uneasiness."

The issue seems to be with the gun, which only Glock makes, LeVine said.

The Polk County Sheriff's Office uses a different Glock, the .40-caliber Model 22 pistol, but there haven't been any incidents with it, said spokeswoman Carrie Rodgers.

The Sheriff's Office switched last year to the Glocks after using Smith & Wessons. The Glocks cost the agency $350 per gun, compared with $560 for the .45-caliber Smith & Wessons deputies were using.

"They're easier to fire, more accurate, and they hold more ammunition," Rodgers said.

Lake Alfred Police Chief Art Bodenheimer said he would never let his officers use a Glock after he saw a video demonstration of one being partially disassembled after being jammed.

His officers use Smith & Wessons instead, because it is an all-metal gun, compared to the plastic Glock, he said.

"I'm not a Glock enthusiast," Bodenheimer said.

The Winter Haven Police Department isn't the only one that has had problem with Glocks. At least two other law enforcement agencies have reported issues.



elsewhere in u.s.

Two .45-caliber Glock Model 21 pistols exploded in the hands of two officers at the Portland Police Department, according to a 2004 article in The Oregonian newspaper. That department then switched to 9 mm Glocks.

In 2006, The Oregonian reported an officer who was injured when his gun exploded filed a multi-million-dollar lawsuit against Glock and the ammunition manufacturer.

In Pennsylvania, a training officer with the Upper Darby Township Police Department said his department used to carry the Glock Model 21 before it started jamming.

The department is now testing a different model of Glock. "We can't get a reason why it keeps happening," he said.

Guevara said Glock's guns aren't defective, and malfunctioning incidents at other agencies are attributed to ammunition or maintenance of the guns.

And the fact that the Portland Police Department switched to a different Glock model is an indication of how good Glock guns are, Guevara said.

[ Merissa Green can be reached at [email protected] or 863-401-6968. Visit her blogs at aandl.theledger.com. ]
 
Ohhh Man... I can see the Glockers getting bent over this.

Glock's are great guns, you just cant say anything bad about them or a firestorm will ensue.
 
gosh

gosh, I better take back allthe bad things I have said about Kel-tec products:banghead::banghead::banghead:
 
I dont think the second pic is glock. the first one is just with trigger dismanteld.

The second is of a Glock magazine, and both photos show damage characteristic of a Glock kaboom. The magazine and the trigger mechanism both tend to blow out.

Like the incident involving the Portland Glocks, this would seem to be caused by overpressure rounds. .45 GAP operates in the .45 ACP +P pressure range, so a manufacturing mistake can lead to some interesting pressure events.
 
So what's the point of this thread? Even Mercedes have engine problems on occassion...but they are still superior cars to others that break down far more frequently and do not perform as well when they are running well. It doesn't happen often, but even American volcanos will erupt...eh?
 
So what's the point of this thread? Even Mercedes have engine problems on occassion...but they are still superior cars to others that break down far more frequently and do not perform as well when they are running well

I feel it necessary to point out that besides the fact that there is no evidence to support this analogy, mechanical engine failure is about the least common cause of any make and model vehicle coming in on the hook. Just because the Cummins engine used in the Dodge trucks will last well in excess of one million miles does not mean a failed injection pump won't leave the truck on the side of the road. I've been wrenching for a long time and I can tell you that engine failure is almost always caused by human error. The only vehicles that I've seen a pattern of needing engines even thought he maintenance was performed are the Korean cars (Daewoo, Kia, Hyundai-the timing belts let go before they are scheduled to be replaced). Otherwise, it's almost always abuse or neglect; Low oil, severe overheating, etc. And often times engine replacement is done not because the engine suffered complete failure, but because replacement was more cost effective and/or offered the customer a better warranty: A couple months back I put a motor in a Ford exdplorer because the timing chain guides failed. The cost of replacing all 4 chains, guides and tensioners was barely less than replacing the engine, and the remanufactured engine came with a 75k warranty.

OK, rant off. We can get back to the exploding tupperware.
 
+1 on wanting to see this thread again tonight

I'm guessing the glock fans are all at work right now. This could get very interesting. Kinda funny though that Glock claimed that the malfunctions are caused by bad ammo and lack of maintenance. I was pretty sure that every Glock fan I've ever talked to claimed a Glock would fire no matter what ammo you put in it. I've also heard it said you could never clean one and it'd work great.
 
This thread almost makes me miss "DENALI" He would have had seizures over this.

I have to go now and read the S&W Kaboom thread... er, uh, I mean the Sig Kaboom thread.... Hmmmm, no wait, the HK Kaboom thread.....

Oh well, I guess I'll just go get some popcorn.
 
I dont think the second pic is glock. the first one is just with trigger dismanteld.

I'm looking through the Glock manual and I'm trying to find that part where it tells you to remove the trigger by BLOWING it out the bottom of the gun. Can you help me locate that page please?
 
Kinda funny though that Glock claimed that the malfunctions are caused by bad ammo and lack of maintenance.

Some of the kabooms reported as being due to Glock's design were confirmed as being due to problems with the ammo. The early Federal .40 rounds had issues, and the Portland Glocks that blew were determined to by White Labs to have gone up due to overcharged ammo. As for maintenance, the problem tends to be oiling the striker channel and/or failing to clean it. Both will cause issues.
 
I'm looking through the Glock manual and I'm trying to find that part where it tells you to remove the trigger by BLOWING it out the bottom of the gun. Can you help me locate that page please?

Damn it, thanks a lot! That was my frickin' coffee you caused to spray from my nose!

Personally, I think Glock fanism is like the attention leftists give Cuba's medical system. IE, it's based off of very, very good brand marketing, not reality. This isn't to say that Glocks compare directly to Cuba's medical system, just that they're "sold" in the same fashion, and despite any fact, their respective fans will believe the party line.

The simple facts of the matter here are:
1) A Glock KB'd. This is not the first one that has done so, and it will not be the last one.
2) All machines, like the people who made them, are imperfect.
3) This may, or may not, have been due to a construction/QA-undetected flaw, but may have been due to a flaw in the design.

Personally, I tend to think (wrt #3) that it's a slight design flaw for an "overpressure" round to cause things to blow out of the gun, directly towards your eyes or your hands. Directing an explosion into a cupped hand, if big enough, is a good way for a person to lose their hand.

I wonder if this is an inherrent Glock problem that's just getting noticed, a flawed batch of guns, or something specific to the .45GAP. As the .45GAP is likely at the upper limits of what the Glock design can withstand, I wouldn't be surprised if it may have been partially caused by repeated shooting of higher-pressure rounds.
As durable as Glocks may be, and as much abuse as they can take, I suspect that an all-steel version of the Glock would still be significantly more durable. Plastics are, for the most part, simply not as durable as steel when it comes to failures like this. Whereas plastic (and aluminum, to a lesser degree) will shatter, steel will warp and bend first (unless it's brittled) to alert you to the problem before it becomes dangerous.
 
There are too, too many Glock Kabooms for this to continue to be an internet myth.

Sooner or later, a duck is a duck.
You know, it swims, and quacks like a Glock.
 
+P ammo in any auto pistol makes me a little nervous.

.45 GAP is a pretty stout round, if a Glock is going to fail, chances are you'll see it in this configuration as opposed to 9mm.
 
There are too, too many Glock Kabooms for this to continue to be an internet myth.

There are also too many Glocks in circulation for the reality to be more than a blip. It's sucks when it happens to you, but that's the case with any statistically unlikely thing that most of us never think twice about.
 
They must have lots of money to throw away on a new pistol, Hmmm one of the only departments in the US to go to the Glock 45 Gap and now this. I believe we are working with a department armory or person who should try to figure out why it happened, prior to the big change over. Save money no one hurt no one shot nada. Come on folks check out the problems with other pistols that are not carried, and figure out why that is?
 
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