Kahr TP45, need info please

[ahpd1992]

Im looking at an excellent deal on a NIB Kahr TP45. I like the way the gun feels in my large hands and the trigger is long, but smooth. My only question/concern is I cant find a lot of information on this particular model, specifically can it handle +P loads. I have to use duty ammo for anything I carry off duty and our PD uses Winchester Ranger 230gr +P 45acp. Great round, but I dont know if the Kahr can handle it. I found out the hard way that not all guns are rated for +P ammo and I cant seem to find out it this gun would handle it. Ive heard nothing but good things about Kahr's, but Im not going to commit to a purchase only to have the gun not fit my purposes.

Any help or information would be greatly appreciated

Tom

 

[Pappy109]

Tom:

The only information I can supply about Justin Moon's, yes Rev. Moon's son, Korean master piece is to avoid the CW Series. The PM series are ok but the CW series is a cost down model just plum full of metallurgy imperfections and MIM parts. The main lock pin sheers and the metal is very poor quality.

Here is their own write up that is just plain BS.

http://www.kahr.com/PA-1B/review_gwle0707.html

NYPD uses Glock 19 and now some S&W clunkers.

I would recommend calling Kahr and asking them straight up. Also asked them if the Mass Attorney General has lifted their ban on their products in Mass yet. That could get interesting.

Pappy

 

[dogtown tom]

ahpd1992:...specifically can it handle +P loads. I have to use duty ammo for anything I carry off duty and our PD uses Winchester Ranger 230gr +P 45acp. Great round, but I dont know if the Kahr can handle it....

According to Kahr +P is fine. From their FAQ's:

Q. Which ammunition is recommended for use with Kahr firearms?

A. Kahr Arms does not endorse any particular brand of ammunition. However, not every brand of ammunition produces the same results. Please check the markings on the barrel hood of your firearm to determine the proper caliber. Kahr suggests a visit to a pistol range to test fire different brands of ammunition in the proper caliber. Kahr cautions against the use of reloads. Lead (unjacketed) bullets can cause excessive fouling and extra attention to cleaning the bore is recommended after firing lead bullets. The Kahr pistol is rated to +P.

Regarding the differences between the TP, P & CW models, I could not disagree more with what Pappy wrote.

The "write up" he linked to is an article from a magazine, not Kahr.

The CW is EXACTLY the same as the P models with these exceptions:
MIM slide stop
Rifled (not polygonal) barrel
Pinned front sight
Less machining of the slide.

The steel is EXACTLY the same as that used on the other Kahr pistols and is not inferior in any way. "Imperfect metalurgy"? Maybe you could argue MIM vs milled, but there aren't very many (if any) reports of broken MIM parts on Kahrs. In any event, the MIM slide stop is the only part different from other Kahr pistols and is easily replaced IF IT BREAKS by Kahr. I have run thousands of rounds through my CW9 with no problems.

As far as the "ban" in Massachusetts? C'mon Pappy....if you know about the ban then you know why. It has to do with the Kahr not having a manual safety & loaded chamber indicator. Period. That's it. Same for ALL HANDGUNS in Massachusetts. If you make a handgun without those features you cannot sell it in Massachusetts. So...........Kahr has begun production of PM9's with a manual safety & LCI. There's nothing secretive and I'm sure Kahr would be delighted to tell you about their Mass compliant handguns.

 

[Pappy109]

How many sheared MIM slide stops do you want! Come on now! you know dog gone well you can't trust the shear strength of a Metal Injected Molded slide stop. I did say the PM series was acceptable though you seemed to have missed that. I gave the man my opinion and you gave him yours. I could not disagree with you more but then again we all see things differently. Now do we want to discuss their 1911 clone......that's a hum dinger Auto Ordinance...right!

You must be a Kahr Dealer...right?

Curious they are using the PM series for MA acceptance and not the CW Series. Has your CW started to bark yet or drink out the toilet bowl? IMHO the CW series are DOGS and a disgrace to Kahr!

 

[Pappy109]

Did I fail to mention the 2000 piece malformed MIM slide release buttons that cause slide fall out that I personally filed a complaint with the MA Attorney General and The CPSC....geeez that slipped my mind..sorry!

 

[dogtown tom]

Pappy109 How many sheared MIM slide stops do you want!

How many do you have?
The internet isn't exactly rife with posts about sheared Kahr slide stops is it?

Come on now! you know dog gone well you can't trust the shear strength of a Metal Injected Molded slide stop.

I do. But then again mine hasn't broken. If the Kahr CW had a rep for shearing the MIMslide stop I would replace it with a milled stop. But it doesn't, so I won't.

You must be a Kahr Dealer...right?

Nope. I'm not a stocking dealer for anyone, I just do transfers.

Curious they are using the PM series for MA acceptance and not the CW Series.

Curious? No. The PM9 is one of the more sought after Kahrs because of it's size. It is smaller than the CW.

Has your CW started to bark yet...

It barks about two hundred rounds a month. I bought it used and it was my first plastic pistol. It has been 100% reliable, eats anything I run through it and I keep it in my nightstand. The ONLY reason it isn't my carry gun is because I also have a PM9 (also bought used) that has night sights. It also barks a couple hundred rounds a month- with no hiccups.

If you broke your MIM slide stop why didn't you just replace it with the milled and avoid all the drama?

Pappy109 Did I fail to mention the 2000 piece malformed MIM slide release buttons that cause slide fall out that I personally filed a complaint with the MA Attorney General and The CPSC....geeez that slipped my mind..sorry!

You replaced 2000 MIM slide stops? Wow.
Are you making this up as you go?

 

[NG VI]

The TP looks a little disproportionate to me, I always liked having the slide be a bit longer than the grip, and I'm not that tall, so longer grips are more of a problem for me than a longer top end. That's a totally subjective, aesthetic opinion though. Haven't heard anything bad about the TP-45.


Will you tell us a little more about the guns that couldn't hack +P?

 

[Pappy109]

No Kahr issued the 2000 mis-shaped MIM mag releases information right from Worchester (Pronounced "WOOSTA") in their own defense.

The best P+ hacking gun is a Glock INHO......all these folks also agree:

# Australia: Royal Australian Air Force (Glock 19), Australian Customs (Glock 17), and all Australian police services (Glock 17, 19, 22, 23, 26, 27) except the South Australia Police and Victoria Police. A Glock 17 outfitted with a thumb safety was designed specifically for the Tasmania Police. [43]
# Austria: Austrian Armed Forces (Glock 17 designated Pistole 80). [44] [45]
# Belgium: Belgian police (Glock 17), [45] Belgian State Security Service. [46]
# Canada: Numerous local law enforcement agencies to include: Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa, Saskatoon, South Coast British Columbia Transportation Authority Police Service, Toronto. [45]
# Ecuador: National Police, various special police units such as the GOE and GIR. [45]
# Fiji: Tactical Response Unit. [47]
# Finland: The primary service firearm of the police. [48] Also in use by the Defence Forces, Department of Corrections (Vankeinhoitolaitos) and Border Guard. [49]
# France: French Army—certain naval and parachute units (Glock 17). [50]
# Georgia: Special forces. [45]
# Germany: GSG 9 of the German Federal Police, [45] Spezialeinsatzkommandos (special response teams) of several state police departments.
# Hong Kong: Special Duties Unit, Hong Kong Police Force. [45]
# Iceland: Icelandic National Police, Víkingasveitin, ICRU. [51] [52] [53]
# India: National Security Guards (Glock 17). [45]
# Indonesia: Indonesian Army Kopassus, Indonesian National Police, Detachment 88.[citation needed]
# Iraq: Iraqi security forces (largest user, purchased 125,163 Glock 19s). [54]
# Italy: Italian special forces—GIS, NOCS, "Col Moschin" Regiment, COMSUBIN, Intelligence and State Security.[citation needed]
# Jordan: Presidential Guard. [45]
# Latvia: Latvian Military (Glock 17), police. [55]
# Lebanon: Used by various police and army units.
# Lithuania: Lithuanian Armed Forces (Glock 17). [56]
# Luxembourg: Glock 17 and 26 variants used by the Unité Spéciale de la Police of the Grand Ducal Police. [57] [58]
# Macedonia: Special police forces, traffic police[citation needed]
# Malaysia: Various forces of Malaysian Armed Forces and Royal Malaysian Police units. [59]
# Mexico: Secretaria de Marina. [45]
# Montenegro: Military of Montenegro [60]
# Netherlands: Military of the Netherlands (Glock 17), [61] Dutch police (Glock 17, about 250 pistols in use as a stopgap measure). [62] [63] [64]
# New Zealand: New Zealand Police (Glock 17). [65]
# Norway: Royal Norwegian Army (Glock 17 designated P-80). [45]
# Philippines: Philippine National Police, National Bureau of Investigation (NBI), National Intelligence Coordinating Agency (NICA), Philippine Drug Enforcement Agency (PDEA). [45]
# Poland: Polish police, [66] Polish Military Police (Glock 17).
# Portugal: Used in the police HK PSP, GNR (Glock 19) , In the Portuguese armed forces (Glock 17)... Glock 18c is also used in the DAE.[citation needed]
# Romania: Issued to deployed and several special operations units.[citation needed]
# Spain: Guardia Civil's UEI (Glock 17). [67]
# Sweden: Swedish Armed Forces (Glock 17 designated Pistol 88 and Glock 19 as Pistol 88B, [68] [69] ) Swedish Customs Service, Swedish Coast Guard.
# Switzerland : Police (Gendarmerie) Cantonal of Geneva are equipped with the Glock 19 [70] The Glarus Cantonal Police also use the Glock 19.
# Taiwan: Garrison Command. National Intelligence Coordinating Agency.[citation needed]
# Thailand: Policeman in 3 south province by G2G buying condition. (Glock 19, 2,238 pcs.) and some policeman, soldier and citizen nationwide. (some models) [45]
# United Kingdom: Greater Manchester Police, Tactical Firearms Unit Specialist Firearms Command of the London Metropolitan Police Service, [71] Police Service of Northern Ireland and certain Scottish Police Specialist Firearms Units (Glock 17). [72]
# United States: FBI, Department of Treasury IRS Criminal Investigation Division, [73] DEA, [74] EPA Criminal Investigation Division, New York City Police Department, Los Angeles Police Department, Philadelphia Police Department, thousands of other agencies at the national, state, and local levels.
# Venezuela [4


Do you care to show me the Kahr List!

 

[ahpd1992]

Thanks for the info, I guess its decision time. Its an auction that Ive watched get relisted for the last 6mos w/ no bids, now the price has been dropped pretty low, so Im gonna wait until its near the end tommorow and see if the price holds.

To answer the last posters question, I bought a new Taurus PT709 compact 9mm. My PD uses 115gr +P+ 9mm the Taurus lasted 6 rounds and then the frame blew apart. Taurus replaced the gun and I sold it, Taurus sent me a letter w/ the gun advising not to use ammo that wasnt within SAMMI specs. I didnt know +P+ ammo wasnt within SAMMI specs. So I guess the Taurus can handle +P, just not +P+ ammo. Anyway I sold the gun to one of the members here, I cant use it due to my PD's restriction on our off duty carry policy.

Before you say it I cant get a CCW permit for Illinois, no one gets to carry but LEO's and a few select others, so my right to carry stems from my LEO certification which give my employer the right to impose certain restrictions.

 

[ahpd1992]

Pappy

my duty weapon is a G35 w/ a 357sig barrel. Glocks are awsome guns, just a bit to thick for off duty, the difference between a Glock and a Kahr seems small on paper, but in reality it makes a big difference.

 

[usp9]

I personally am sick and tired of the useless assault on religious freedom constantly directed at Kahr. What a load of crap. Why Pappy109, do you care about his religion? What business is it of yours. Geez.

I found shooting +P in my P45 more of a challenge than standard ammo. The guns are pretty light and follow up shots came slower with the +P...at least for me. I added a Hogue Handall, and that helped better the grip.

The good news is that the gun is very accurate. Take down and maintenance are easy. I've carried the TP9 and found the longer grip makes the gun harder to conceal, but not impossible of course.

 

[NG VI]

Do you care to show me the Kahr List!

The difference is that the Glock 17/22 is designed for military and police open carry, not designed specifically for concealed carry by people who aren't wearing body armor and don't have the very real possibility of being fired at just for having the job they do.

A Nissan Titan can move more material at once than a Jetta, but then they aren't designed for the same thing now are they?

 

[dogtown tom]

130+ posts in one week explains a lot.....

Pappy109: No Kahr issued the 2000 mis-shaped MIM mag releases information right from Worchester (Pronounced "WOOSTA") in their own defense.

Clear. As. Mud.

The best P+ hacking gun is a Glock INHO......all these folks also agree:
[Totally irrelevant text deleted]
Do you care to show me the Kahr List!

While you may believe the Glock is "best" at using +P, you may want to reconsider that advice when talking about anything other than Glocks in 9mm. There is considerable evidence that Glocks in .40 and .45 suffer a greater than normal rate of catastrophic failures (KABOOMS) than do the 9mm Glocks. This is supposedly caused by the chamber design which does not fully support the cartridge case. Using +P in .40 or .45 would seem to make the possibility even more likely.

Posting a list of countries who use the Glock is completely irrelevant to this thread:banghead:. Especially when few if any of those countries use the Glock in .45acp.

When Glock makes a handgun as small as a Kahr come back and gloat. Until then, go finish your homework, it's almost bedtime.

 

[bdb benzino]

I was debating on getting a milled slide stop and a stainless steel guide rod for my self for x-mas, for it to be better looking and stronger not because it needs it. My CW 9 has been the best CCW pistol I have carried, super reliable, accurate, so very comfortable to carry. I like its size compared to the PM series, as I am a big guy an like the little extra length that the CW has. The deal you get is worth the loss of the few features in the CW series, and I think the quality is just as good.

 

[chris in va]

The CW is EXACTLY the same as the P models with these exceptions:
MIM slide stop
Rifled (not polygonal) barrel
Pinned front sight
Less machining of the slide

I also understand there's less to no polishing of the feed ramp and chamber like on the P series.

 

[Pappy109]

I also understand there's less to no polishing of the feed ramp and chamber like on the P series.

Tell me please how to you take a Kahr slide apart?

 

[Pappy109]

It is interesting that Justin Moons revelation to the firearms world can not even be sold in the state it is made in. IMHO KAHR is pure CRAP. The only difference between a Kahr and a bucket of horse manure is the bucket! I refuse to even work on them anymore.

 

[Pappy109]

I also understand there's less to no polishing of the feed ramp and chamber like on the P series.

Want to try and explain that off center feed ramp in the barrel throat as well. I have always wanted to talk to a Kahr expert, I just never could find one before!

 

[Pappy109]

Clear. As. Mud.




While you may believe the Glock is "best" at using +P, you may want to reconsider that advice when talking about anything other than Glocks in 9mm. There is considerable evidence that Glocks in .40 and .45 suffer a greater than normal rate of catastrophic failures (KABOOMS) than do the 9mm Glocks. This is supposedly caused by the chamber design which does not fully support the cartridge case. Using +P in .40 or .45 would seem to make the possibility even more likely.

Posting a list of countries who use the Glock is completely irrelevant to this thread:banghead:. Especially when few if any of those countries use the Glock in .45acp.

When Glock makes a handgun as small as a Kahr come back and gloat. Until then, go finish your homework, it's almost bedtime.

I am back and may I present the Glock Model 36.

http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/product50.html

http://www.glock-guns.com/reviews/0-Glock-36.aspx

http://www.remtek.com/arms/glock/model/45/36/

Then there is the Kahr Problems

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=193095

 

[MICHAEL T]

Once more you give out mis information
The gun test was on Karh web sight but wasn't by them it plainly shows to be reprinted from this magazine. They just reprinted for their use. All manufactures do like wise.


Kahr TP45 .45ACP
Fast, flat, concealable–one of the best OFF-DUTY PISTOLS yet!
Guns and Weapons for Law Enforcement, July 2007, p. 56 - 61
By Rich Grassi


This link seems to have many happy owners
http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=193095

 

[Pappy109]

Once more you give out pure opinion and narcissistic speculation in my humble opinion. I have come to that conclusion from all the guns you list. Is that bragging really necessary? Haven't seen any Vietnam MOS or dates yet either.

I am beginning to think this cowboy is all hat and no cattle.

Daddy always said " Don't call him a cowboy till you see him ride"

It ain't looking good as far as I am concerned. But, I am not an expert at anything nor do I claim to be so I will just have to take your word for it. Put your foot in that stirrup and swing on up there.

 

[usp9]

I also understand there's less to no polishing of the feed ramp and chamber like on the P series.

My CW9 barrel finish, (aside from the rifling), looks the same as my T9, the same as my TP9, the same as my P45, the same as my K9, and one day in the near future the same as the TP45 that I have the hots for.

Want to try and explain that off center feed ramp in the barrel throat as well.
Tell me please how to you take a Kahr slide apart?

Pappy109, for someone so convinced the Kahr is inferior, you demonstrate a severe ignorance of the gun. Your credibility is taking a major hit in this thread.

 

[RevDerb]

Thanks for the info, I guess its decision time. Its an auction that Ive watched get relisted for the last 6mos w/ no bids, now the price has been dropped pretty low, so Im gonna wait until its near the end tommorow and see if the price holds.

To answer the last posters question, I bought a new Taurus PT709 compact 9mm. My PD uses 115gr +P+ 9mm the Taurus lasted 6 rounds and then the frame blew apart. Taurus replaced the gun and I sold it, Taurus sent me a letter w/ the gun advising not to use ammo that wasnt within SAMMI specs. I didnt know +P+ ammo wasnt within SAMMI specs. So I guess the Taurus can handle +P, just not +P+ ammo. Anyway I sold the gun to one of the members here, I cant use it due to my PD's restriction on our off duty carry policy.

Before you say it I cant get a CCW permit for Illinois, no one gets to carry but LEO's and a few select others, so my right to carry stems from my LEO certification which give my employer the right to impose certain restrictions.

Don't miss my auction on Gunbroker along with whichever one that you've been watching for TP45. It was posted here for some time without any responses. Mine has night sights and prices have just been adjusted including free shipping.

 

[Pappy109]

Real Hot Sellers them Kahrs are! So were the Hugos at one time!

 

[Pappy109]

My CW9 barrel finish, (aside from the rifling), looks the same as my T9, the same as my TP9, the same as my P45, the same as my K9, and one day in the near future the same as the TP45 that I have the hots for.



Pappy109, for someone so convinced the Kahr is inferior, you demonstrate a severe ignorance of the gun. Your credibility is taking a major hit in this thread.

I will put my credibility on the line against Kahr any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

Let me ask the question again since it went unanswered the last time.

How do you detail strip a Karh CW 45 Slide?