allisd17
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Personal preference is what this thread is all about.....OK, fair enough - your personal preference. Thanks for the clarification.
Kar 98k vs Lee Enfield No 4 MK 1
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Ugly Sauce
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That's interesting, just the opposite of my impressions. I could say the same thing in reverse. !! Different strokes, for different folks. The personal preference for sure.
allisd17
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Honestly, I like them both. Sometimes it's hard to decide which one to take to the range.
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rs525
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Just a range gun.
The saying goes.....In the Great War "The Germans brought a hunting rifle,the Americans bought a target rifle and the British bought a battle rifle". The No 4 Rifle Mk1-2 had a stronger receiver and better sights than the No1 Mk 3*.referred to above.
wiscoaster
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Funny how one of the Americans' rifles was basically British with a German action.
Mauser lover
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If you get an Enfield, I think you can get oversized bolt lugs to fix increasing headspace-and if you are going to be shooting it a bunch, I recommend picking up a set. The Mauser headspace cannot be adjusted this way, but I’ve never heard of someone needing to fix excessive headspace this way either. Mausers don’t usually just open up their headspace like Enfields.
Ugly Sauce
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The SMLE (oh excuse me, Enfield) uses a detachable bolt head, which comes in I think three different sizes to adjust head space somewhat. However, remember that the SMLE (excuse me again, the No.4 Enfield, no relation to the SMLE) headspaces on the rim. Where you get into stretched cases with the .303 can also be because the chamber was cut a bit long. But the cartridge does not headspace on the shoulder, as in a Mauser. So your headspace can be okay, but the chamber can be long and stretch the cases. does that make sense?
KansasTrapper77
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Like all of these. Welllll it depends. If I’m going to take the action and re-barrel/re-chamber it, Mauser every time. If I want a military surplus rifle to remain intact and have around, Enfield.
The Mauser action is the yardstick by which all other actions are measured against. But a Mauser battle rifle has nothing going for it other than the action, like any surplus rifle it can really be hit an miss on accuracy when you purchase it. So many variables. And frankly the the v-notch sight mounted forward of the action to me is almost worthless for accurate repeatable fire. I have a swedish mauser that shoots well but I can group the Enfield better with Irons.
The Enfield has far superior sights that are downright fun to play with. I don’t remember what the battle sight is zeroed for and I don’t remember what rear micrometer sights start at but they are a blast to shoot irons out past 400 yards. With a good spotter it doesn’t take too much to repeatedly hit a man size target. We play with an enfield sniper out to 1000 yards. Reloading your own ammo helps the .303 for sure. It does stretch brass so we only neck size it.
The Mauser action is the yardstick by which all other actions are measured against. But a Mauser battle rifle has nothing going for it other than the action, like any surplus rifle it can really be hit an miss on accuracy when you purchase it. So many variables. And frankly the the v-notch sight mounted forward of the action to me is almost worthless for accurate repeatable fire. I have a swedish mauser that shoots well but I can group the Enfield better with Irons.
The Enfield has far superior sights that are downright fun to play with. I don’t remember what the battle sight is zeroed for and I don’t remember what rear micrometer sights start at but they are a blast to shoot irons out past 400 yards. With a good spotter it doesn’t take too much to repeatedly hit a man size target. We play with an enfield sniper out to 1000 yards. Reloading your own ammo helps the .303 for sure. It does stretch brass so we only neck size it.
One of the first things armorers altered on the SMLE when the British army settled into trench warfare was to ream the chamber oversize, so the mud and debris wouldn't cause feed and other stoppages. A regular private was required to be able to fire at least 15 aimed rounds a minute minimum. An instructor at the School of Musketry fired 38 rounds in a minute,all hitting a 24" target at 300 yards. The Enfields were a rifle of empire and had to function in just about every environment and terrain on the planet. I load 303 Hornady's 174gr with Varget and with my No 5 and its hard hitting and accurate for 200 yd work.
Mauser lover
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Aha! That’s it! I don’t know why I was thinking interchangeable lugs. Pick up the oversized bolt heads (and a set of field gauges) if you plan to shoot it enough to open up the headspace.
NIGHTLORD40K
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Enfield if its 1943 thanks to the larger magazine and lower recoil.
Neither if its 2022 because these cartridges are too damn hard to find now.
Neither if its 2022 because these cartridges are too damn hard to find now.
GBExpat
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K98k or Nº4Mk1 ...
I own several of each type (including Savage & Longbranch Nº4s) and cannot honestly make such a call, sorry.
My first milsurp was a gift from my maternal Grandfather in 1968; a 1937 S147 (J.P.Sauer) K98k mis-matchbolt, uncut-stock bringback given to him by "Uncle" Somebody. I love that old rifle. Not only have I done a lot of shooting & learning with that rifle, mostly here around the farm, it got me started in my reloading hobby (with a Lee "Whack-a-Mole" Loader).
There is just something about the Enfields, both 1 and 4, that really appeals to me.
I own several of each type (including Savage & Longbranch Nº4s) and cannot honestly make such a call, sorry.
My first milsurp was a gift from my maternal Grandfather in 1968; a 1937 S147 (J.P.Sauer) K98k mis-matchbolt, uncut-stock bringback given to him by "Uncle" Somebody. I love that old rifle. Not only have I done a lot of shooting & learning with that rifle, mostly here around the farm, it got me started in my reloading hobby (with a Lee "Whack-a-Mole" Loader).
There is just something about the Enfields, both 1 and 4, that really appeals to me.
wiscoaster
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I think it's that maybe they're better balanced. It seems to me that the Enfield is more "comfortable" to hold and to handle. Also I like their "lines". They're just plain more visually appealing to me. And the early SMLE's with the walnut stocks .... oh my. All this is purely personally subjective, of course.
Ugly Sauce
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I have hunted with both, never killed anything with the Mauser, but it always "seemed" like the Mauser was heavier, or got heavier at the end of the day. I don't know what the official weight difference is between the two, but depending on the wood density the weight of either one can vary widely. Perhaps my K98k Mausers are on the heavy side, or my SMLE's (and No.4 Enfield rifle, no relation to the SMLE) are on the light side. I have one No.4 that really is especially light for a...S..M...er I mean No.4. Anyhow, with my rifles, I would prefer to carry the .303 all day rather than the K98k.
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rs525
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Wow I did not expect it to be this close. I guess it really is just personal preference, but I think I might lean to the Mauser Kar98k just because it's a little more iconic and is often considered the bolt action mechanism by which all others are judged.
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wiscoaster
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Well, the Mauser action anyway, if not the Kar98k rifle itself.
Mauser lover
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Why not get a nice Czech or Yugo example rather than a K98k? Cheaper, often nicer from the factory (wartime production, and all that brings with it, is not good for quality control), and the same action.
rb288
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I have a no. 5 "jungle carbine" that I absolutely love.
Yes, it kicks like a mule, but a limb saver works well.
Yes, it is loud and flashy.
Yes, it's "effective range" is probably not much more than 200 yds, if that.
But, it is very accurate out to it's "effective range".
It's a blast to shoot and would make a great backup SHTF gun.
Yes, it kicks like a mule, but a limb saver works well.
Yes, it is loud and flashy.
Yes, it's "effective range" is probably not much more than 200 yds, if that.
But, it is very accurate out to it's "effective range".
It's a blast to shoot and would make a great backup SHTF gun.
wiscoaster
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Yes, I agree, most of the K98k's available at any kind of a price I can afford are mix-master Russian captures anyway.
Mosin77
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To me the Mauser is just somehow the platonic ideal of the bolt action… I like the Enfield and if I had to go into battle with it I’d rather have a No. 4, hands down… but to shoot for fun, and reload for after, a Mauser takes the prize. But make mine in 7x57 vs 8x57, please.
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rs525
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So after watching a video on Youtube about picking the best bolt action and further consideration, I've decided to go with the Mauser instead of the Lee Enfield. The Enfields as cool as they are with their smooth bolt work 10 round capacity and rear sights, the headspace problems they have, rear locking lugs, rimmed cartridges and expensive ammo compared to 8mm Mauser just aren't as appealing to me now. Plus I'm more interested in post WW2 Cold War British firearms like the FN FAL (or rather their licensed version L1A1) and the Browning Hi Power (which I have as you can tell by my profile pic and it rules). Thanks for all the replies.
wiscoaster
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Ditto that!!
He actually asked which military bolt action WWII rifle people wanted…”military”.
A Mauser action apparently makes a great hunting rifle, but for a military application: aperture sights, 10 round magazine, faster action…the ‘Mad Minute’.
I went to a school in England where we shot what we were told were SMLEs. They were No 4 rifles. The school team competed at places like Bisley were the range went many hundreds of yards, with iron sights. Pretty accurate.
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