Keep your eyes open people!

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280PLUS

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I know this is not gun related but I thought I'd post it here in General where the most would probably see it. Mods feel free to close or move...

I'm just ending a 2 day long event at a recently built high end complex in my area. It is associated with a high profile hotel chain. Big beautiful brand new building(s). Yesterday afternoon I observed a Middle Eastern gentleman who while appearing to be video taping his children near the entrance also appeared to be discreetly panning the entrance area and taping it as well. When he noticed I was watching him he got an "UH-OH" look on his face. I simply smiled and continued on my way. Today, after a little overnight thought, I brought it to the attention of building security. They said to me, "Thank you for bringing this to us because we've had suspicions of something strange going on around here since BEFORE the building opened and you are helping to confirm our suspicions. We have several persons of interest that we are aware of and have recorded on our security system." They are supposed to contact me again on this.

Something is going on out there folks...

How's that go?

"SEE something? SAY something!"
 
TallPine said:
Yeah... he probably was thinking: "here I am just taking pictures of my kids and that guy probably thinks I'm a terrorist and is going to turn me in"
Click to expand...
:)

Yeah ... or maybe not.
 
I think the best time for action is when it's forced upon you. When the hostage takers pull out their guns, and try to assume control, THAT's the time that the populace needs to be vigilant.

Just my opinion.
 
LightningJoe said:
Suspicion is warranted. Some people are more suspicious-looking than are others. That's life. If 100% of terrorists look just like you, expect to get more attention.
Click to expand...

I think that you might just have offended the IRA and the ELF, the Neo-Nazis, and the all the little groups that fit in the cracks between them. If you think that all terrorists look the same, then it is you that is wearing blinders.
 
Joejojoba111 said:
I think the best time for action is when it's forced upon you. When the hostage takers pull out their guns, and try to assume control, THAT's the time that the populace needs to be vigilant.

Just my opinion.
Click to expand...

When that occurs, you are already behind the power curve and about to lose entirely. Do you just buckle your seat belt when a collision is impending, or do you think it might be a better idea to buckle it when you get in?

And also, while terrorists might be of any ethnic group, remember that it is the Middle Eastern bunches are the most active. You might find caucasian Islamic extremists (and we have), but the majority of active and worrisome cells are from the M.E.
 
well, I am not all that sure that what you describe rises to the level of 'something to report'. What makes you so sure you were seeing a 'middle eastern' man? Take if from a Miami resident, they are hard to tell from an Indian, South American, or regular American citizen of many years and generations.
I think you are probably over reacting, and the security guys sound like amateurs.
 
In my observations, people who are up to no good try to keep a low profile. The more inconspicuous they try to be, the more nervous they act and the more obvious they are to the vigilant eye. For example, the guy who is lurking in the back of a convenience store he intends to rob will avoid any kind of interaction with customers or employees and act busy. So when you notice someone back by the refridgerated drinks constantly panning the store while taking extra measures to avoid eye contact with other folks or stay clear of cameras and mirrors, you should be suspicious.

Criminals are opportunistic and will take advantage of todays "mind your own business" attitude. To make their lives that much easier, many folks will pretend they didn't notice anything just to avoid becoming involved. More often than not, noticing and interacting with a potential criminal will cause them to abandon their plan. That guy who has been contemplating robbery will likely change his mind if a store employee notices his deliberately unprolific behavior and offers assistance. As for those of us who are store patrons rather than employees, we can either interfere with their plan by becoming an obstacle (stay close and make them aware that you have noticed them) or we can alert an employee to a potential problem. In the most drastic case where the criminal followes through with his plans, those of us with a higher-than-average sense of civic duty simply must evaluate the situation and determine an appropriate course of action. Those of us who are CCW holders have more options in such a scenario, but our actions have much more grave consequences as well.
 
Omg!!!

A swarthy man with a wife, kids and camera! What will those cunning devils think of next?

Reminds me that two quite young men came into my store Saturday with a 45-50ish man that I took to be their father. They had all the signs of current duty military.

One young man finally sidled up to me and very earnestly said almost in a whisper,"You know, over there the men all have sex with other men. All they use the women for is having babies."

I kept a straight face and said,"Wow."

Didn't bother telling him that when he was shatting down his own legs, I spent more time in Araby than I ever wanted to. Their religion is phathetic, their hygene lousy, their society second rate but the men still like women.

I hope he lives long enough to grow up. Likewise anybody scared to death of a "middle eastern man and his kids"
 
well, I am not all that sure that what you describe rises to the level of 'something to report'. What makes you so sure you were seeing a 'middle eastern' man? Take if from a Miami resident, they are hard to tell from an Indian, South American, or regular American citizen of many years and generations.
I think you are probably over reacting, and the security guys sound like amateurs.
Click to expand...

Uh, I'm 110% sure he was Muslim. You naysayers weren't there but you'll pass judgement on something you didn't see. I knew I'd get that kind of response from some to this post. I even expected you to downplay the abilities of the security people. Let me tell you they seemed pretty professional to me. I was impressed. These ain't Mall Ninjas folks. They were asking the right questions. The way he was handling his camera seemed VERY suspicious to me and you would have had to see this to know what I'm talking about. He wasn't taping the kids he was taping what was around them and it happened to be the entrance. If I hadn't have stumbled across this going on noone would have ever known. All they're going to do is review the tapes for that point in time and see if: A. It is any of the people that they have "interest" in. B. Make up their own minds as to what, exactly, he may have been doing with his camera. C. See if they can find him anywhere else on their tapes and see if he makes any other moves that might raise suspicion. Do I feel good about profiling a man with his family? Nope, not at all. I even told the security people as I left that it really SUCKS that we have to think this way. They said, "Yes it does, but what can you do?"

Now sure, maybe it was all a bunch of innocent nothing but what if that place is attacked sometime in the future? I'd feel pretty bad having never told them what it was I saw. I'll err on the side of safety, thanks.

PS, I haven't given you all the details either. You have heard in the past that we SHOULD report people photographing our structures, right? That IS something we're supposed to be on the lookout for. You know that, right?
 
If it J.D.L.R., it's worth reporting. There were plenty of J.D.L.R's leading up to the attack on N.Y. For instance, guys who want only to learn to fly aircraft, not how to land. That was a classic J.D.L.R. Got to use our judgement, but better than doing nothing IMHO. Tough to draw a hard line.

J.D.L.R. = Just Don't Look Right
Josh
 
I think the best time for action is when it's forced upon you. When the hostage takers pull out their guns, and try to assume control, THAT's the time that the populace needs to be vigilant.

Just my opinion.
Click to expand...
So the populace was to have been vigilant only when the Japanese attacked Peral Harbor, only when the Nazis actually invaded Poland, only as the planes flew into the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center, the pentagon and the PA field. I think you have confused vigilance with balls to the wall combat action. That definitely is not always the best action; it would be much better to take lesser action and cut off the need for such in the first place if practical. Don't you think it would have been better to avoid 9/11 altogether if the populace and the government had been more vigilant and taken care of the threat before it came to what it did? If people were vigilant (watchful) beforehand then many catastophes, like 9/11, could be avoided. By the way, Perpetual Vigilence is the price of Freedom, if only because some sack of turd always wants to take away that freedom when someone else has it.

All the best,
Glenn B
 
I think you did the right thing 280PLUS. You observed suspicious behavior and reported it. No harm, no foul, no accusations, just a heads-up. It might be important.

There are Islamic terrorist cells in the U.S. just as there are in Britain (remember the recent subway bombings). Captured terrorist documents have often included pictures and layouts of major buildings and monuments (most recently the Washington monument).

I've lived in my neighborhood for over 20 years. There's a park down the street right next to an elementary school where my kids went. The other day I noticed a guy (white, 6'2" male) with wild, unwashed hair, boots with no laces, an overcoat who I did not recognize hanging out at the park while walking my dog early in the morning. On the second day, I reported him to the police.

Was he doing anything against the law? No. Was he a vagrant? Most likely.
And he was hanging out right next to an elementary school with little kids walking to and from school unsupervised every day. COMMON SENSE says he didn't belong there. He was suspicious. And if something had happened to any kids (he's gone, it didn't) I would never have forgiven myself for not calling someone's attention to this possible threat.

There are always lots of excuses NOT to take action.
 
280PLUS said:
Uh, I'm 110% sure he was Muslim. You naysayers weren't there but you'll pass judgement on something you didn't see.
Click to expand...

First you said he was middle eastern. Fair enough. But how do you go from that to 110% certainty on the man's religion, just by observing him with his camera? As you mentioned previously, perhaps you left some details out of your account.

I agree that none of us were present except you. I believe some of the skeptical responses you've received are due to incomplete information in your story -- nothing more, nothing less.
 
model 649 said:
If it J.D.L.R., it's worth reporting. There were plenty of J.D.L.R's leading up to the attack on N.Y. For instance, guys who want only to learn to fly aircraft, not how to land. That was a classic J.D.L.R. Got to use our judgement, but better than doing nothing IMHO. Tough to draw a hard line.

J.D.L.R. = Just Don't Look Right
Josh
Click to expand...

Then its JDLR that the FBI was in fact tipped off about those guys who didn't care about landing, the FBI did in fact raid their apartment, and the guys were conspicuously let go, and their computer. And there was absolutely no further actions taken. And then this guy who the FBI let go crashed a plane in to the WTC.

So the good citizen who 'dutifuly reported to the authorities' got jack squat done. But on another flight headed to the White House some citizens who didn't comply thwarted the terrorists.

Terrorists, you will notice, won't have enough ammunition to shoot every one of their hostages. Yea. Think about it.

In Moscow almost a thousand people sat still while terrorists with a few cartridges set up the bombs that would be able to kill all the people.

And there's no reason to suspect that a terrorist will use only 1 cartridge on each person.
 
I've lived in my neighborhood for over 20 years. There's a park down the street right next to an elementary school where my kids went. The other day I noticed a guy (white, 6'2" male) with wild, unwashed hair, boots with no laces, an overcoat who I did not recognize hanging out at the park while walking my dog early in the morning. On the second day, I reported him to the police.
Click to expand...

Dang, guys, you wouldn't BELIEVE the way I was hassled the other day... There I was dreaming of... well, it was interesting, and then Killer, my pekinese/poodle mix, leaps on the bed, and tells me it's time to go enjoy nature... Well, if I ignore Killer, I know I can say goodbye to a pair of shoes, and I'll probably find a "present" in the middle of the living room... So, into the boots and the raincoat, and out the door. 10 minutes later, we're in the park, Killer's attacking a bush, and two squad cars show up, throw me on teh ground, and scare the heck out of Killer... Let me tell you, that isn't good. He won't touch his dinner now, but he ate my favorite pair of flipflops...
 
bogie -

Funny. Guess you've never had kids:

Suspect leads police to body

Cassandra "Casey" Williamson ?

VALLEY PARK, Missouri (CNN) -- A suspect held in connection with the disappearance Friday of a 6-year-old girl led authorities to a body police believe is that of Cassandra "Casey" Williamson, St. Louis County Police Chief Ron Battelle told CNN.

The drama gripped U.S. television viewers all day Friday, from the morning hours when the girl was reported missing to late afternoon, when a body matching her description was found in an abandoned glass factory near the girl's neighborhood.

Johnny Johnson, a 24-year-old transient, had been taken into custody.

The news came amid a series of morbid child abduction cases from coast to coast -- Elizabeth Smart in Utah, Samantha Runnion and Danielle van Dam in California. Earlier this week, Erica Pratt, a spunky 7-year-old Philadelphia girl, escaped captivity nearly a day after she was spirited into a car by two men.
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????????

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While people these days will associate a Middle Easterner with terrorism he could have been no more than the competition covertly checking on the new facitlity.
 
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