Kel-Tec P11 vs. Taurus PT111 Millennium

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Bravo11

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I'm looking to add to my arsenal and I'm looking for feedback between these two handguns.
The specs are similar with the Taurus being a little larger/heavier.
This would be for CCW.
 
taurus is better out of the box though they sometimes develope problem requiring a fix. the kel-tec is out of the box may have a problem and may not you wont know till you go to range and put good 50-200 rounds. sometimes the trigger spring will worm out between the frame and trigger bar which is a easy fix. with kel-tec you have support via KTOG-Kel Tec Owners Group

with the kel-tec you can get some nice accessories like 357sig/40S&W[rare] conversion,belt clip, hard chrome slide trade in for $20 or parkerized for $15,night sights. kel-tec is made in america down in cocoa florida.

its a gamble with kel-tec but after 1 trip to kel-tec or a little work by yourself if your crafty it can be a nice reliable gun. myself the only problem I had was with trigger spring ending up between frame and trigger bar. simple bending of the spring can keep it from ever happening again. some people report jams with ammo though that sounds like very hit and miss problem. my kel-tec feeds anything I give it, win white box fmj,jhp,fed hydrashock,golden sabers,silvertips HP.

kel-tec p11 is a relatively simple design dissasembly is easier than the pt111. dissasembly is tricky with pt111 though the pro version is supposed to be much improved on many levels.
 
I have a P-11, and I'm completely happy with it and the company. For the price, it's impossible to beat.

I've sniffed around the Taurus, but haven't seemed that much inclined to try one out, and that's probably because I have a P-11. :D
 
Taurus stole the design and somehow made it less reliable. KT's are more likely to work out of the box what I've read. The Taurus has been redone over and over again and the newest "Mellinium Pro" model is just another jammomatic made to look more prettier.

I've owned about four KelTec P-11's (not just the dozens of Business P11's that I never shot) over the years and evey one has been 100% reliable. I shoot all kinds of ammo and they've all eaten everything without skipping a beat. I had a tripple-digit serial number model, a 27XXX series, and two that were above 56XXX if memory serves me. Those were just the ones I shot. My first experience was when a local cop pulled one out of his boot and showed it to me. He said I had to get one, so I did.

A few years back, I did an in-depth critique of the features of the KT P11. You can find the "Reader's Digest" version on the KTOG site here: http://www.ktog.org/reviews-p11.htm. I'm Aaron. Poke around that site to find more info. I mailed the full version of this Critique to KelTec and they actually read and instituted many of the changes! Talk about responsive.

Many of the complaints about the P11 come from malfunctions. Malfunctions are a way of life with any small pistol. Larger pistols can afford to be over-engineered with large tolerances and excessive forces used to operate the various functions of the pistol such as extraction, ejection, chambering, hammer/striker force, etc. When you downsize and lighten the design, you can't afford many of these fancy excesses and all such weapons start to get finicky. Considering the variety of 9mm on the market, it frankly surprises me that any small pistol can handle enough of it to be practical.
 
Before you all go :what: on the anti Taurus thread..Ill tell you my history with the guns and my dad, who's a dealer and his friends experiences also.

In our immediate family weve had
PT 911
PT 940
PT92 (3)
Raging Bull Casull
445
605
85 fly weight

Friends have had over a dozen including the normal PT92/96, 605 and Bulls.

Then ONLY problem weve had in YEARS of shooting the guns, I mean shooting the guns..not safe queens, 1000's of rounds through ALL of them.
Was the lock on the Casull would lock itself while shooting. The lock somehow dissapeared and the problem stopped.

I WILL BUY and OWN Taurus guns AGAIN....the Poly guns do have a questionable and sorted past......so be it.

Please limit your advice to people on this forum to THOSE guns............

This is the equivalent of people who had a lemon Chevette/Vega in the 70's, slamming Chevy to people who may be asking about a new Corvette..

Shoot well..............................
 
I'm looking to add to my arsenal and I'm looking for feedback between these two handguns.
The specs are similar with the Taurus being a little larger/heavier.
This would be for CCW.
Click to expand...

They both are crap. Sorry.
 
They both are crap. Sorry.
Click to expand...
I've sniffed and handled several examples of both, and you're totally mistaken about that. I know crap very well, and these are not that. They are basically metal and plastic with some volatile petrochemical like substances covering parts of them.

This post is, BTW, every bit as helpful and responsive as yours.
 
PCRCCW said:
In our immediate family weve had
Click to expand...
Funny, your list of guns did not include the PT111 which is the subject of this thread. Nowhere did I say that all Taurus guns are junk, but since you stated otherwise... Taurus has a VERY poor record of reliability. Anybody can hog metal away in the shape of a gun, polish it, and package it with a lifetime warranty (which you might very well need). In my experience, I've handled over a dozen broken and severely worn Taurus firearms. Early on, I thought they were great guns because I had only handled the new ones. As time went on, these guns started coming back to me at an alarming rate. Their 44 Magnum pistols were a 50% deal with half of the guns I sold returned to me worn out! I've examined model 605's, 85's, and their infamous "Ragging" piece of Bullcrap in various states of falling apart after relatively few rounds being put through them. Typical results? Maybe not, but I'm completely unsold on the matter.

As the PT111 goes, by that time I had been so disgusted with Taurus that I refused to sell them. Even today, the same monkeys are carving the same poor metals into the same shapes. Perhaps they have other monkeys grunting their disapproval or approval now, but I ain't gonna buy it.
the Poly guns do have a questionable and sorted past......
Click to expand...
If you haven't seen one before, notice that the KT P11 and the PT111 (man, they even made the name sound similar) are NOT poly guns. They are, in fact, steel and aluminum with a polymer grip frame. The only structural service provided by the polymer is to hold the hammer spring and magazine release. Ruger makes the only TRUE polymer pistol now where even the guide rails are polymer.
 
I've a got a P-11, it has been 100% reliable. It is the most reliable of the pistols that Kel-Tec makes. Lots of support from the Kel-Tec forum is available for improving the trigger pull. It is long but not really heavy - 8.5 lbs. Can't comment on the Taurus except I've read here it is very difficult to disassemble and the trigger can be gritty/heavy. Lots of P-11 accessories available for use to fit your personal taste:

http://www.kel-tec.com/new_page_3.htm
 
I have a Kel-Tec I use in my CCW classes. Over the last couple years about a dozen people have fired it (in addition to me of course) and it has yet to malfunction.

I have seen about half a dozen of the Taurus polymers and each and every one had a HORRABLE trigger pull. Since you mentioned CCW, which implies self defense, your first two concerns should be, will it work and can I hit. Even if the Taurus works, I question if you can hit with it, at least not quickly.

YMMV!
 
I know people that have Taurus pistols and like them. I will am one of those who will never give another cent to Taurus. My wife had a PT-132 Millinium that was junk.
I really had no problem with the gun being a lemon. I was even ready to accept that the trigger was horrible and could never be made better. BUT when it was time to send the gun back to Taurus to have it fixed that is when the problems started.
First they lost my gun for a few days. They had it for over a month maybe longer it's been awhile and THEY DID NOT FIX IT. When I got it back it still would not feed and the load chamber indicator still did not work. The women that answer the phone acted like I was annoying them by calling and had no idea what was going on. The customer service manager was a nice guy to talk to but was full of it . After speaking with an attorney and contacting the BBB of South Florida I finally got the gun back so that I could sell it.
TAURUS = More trouble than they are worth.
I was very polite and curtious with these people to the end. They would not respond to anything untill I let them know of all the infractions that they were facing according to the BBB.
 
Great replies. I especially like the Kel-Tec support from both their web site and KTOG. I'm probably going to go with the hard chrome slide. Any opinions on P11 slide materials.
Thanks again to all.
 
The hard chrome is a matte finish. Bright but not shiny. It is much more rust resistant than blue. Parkerized is available too. Check the price differential between the hard chrome and blue at your dealer, sometimes it is significant. If there is a significant price differential or chrome is not available, you can get the blue and send the slide, barrel and assembly pin to KT and they will swap those parts for chrome parts for $20 ($15 for parkerized). These parts can be sent by regular mail as they have no serial number (best to insure them). Include an itemized list of what you send them. KT pays return shipping so order any parts/accessories you need at that time. Turnaround varies as to whether they have chrome parts in stock. Might call first to make sure they are well-stocked - 800-515-9983. They have a contractor chrome parts for them in batches.
 
Black,
I wasnt really just responding to you. Its the general "Taurus Sucks" crowd which in all honesty, IMO, are people who have the misfortune of owning an early/mid production PT 1** series guns, which they have every right to 'slam their guns"....or the keyboard shooters/gunrag enthusiasts who have never picked one up.
Admittedly Taurus has had a questionable rep because of their early revolvers and the PT 1** guns. These guns really deserve the rep they got.
What I dont agree with and will continue to freely state at will, is the "Anti Taurus" generalizers. No Company today makes bad guns as a whole.
I have preferences and those I dont like just like anyone else. But I dont jump on the ANTI MAKER bandwagon like MANY people seem to with any Taurus thead that come along.....
Make sense?
Perhaps I go overboard......if so, hey, what the hell! But its the brand whores/keyboard shooters that dont have a clue that force my never changing response.
Ive sent guns back to Taurus.....MY CIA didnt lock up worth a ???? on 2 holes.....they fixed it and sent it back with 2 sets of grips for my trouble.
It shot like it should and I liked the gun.......
Rant OFF..............Shoot well.......
 
Well, as a NJ resident I wouldn't buy a Taurus if it were the best gun made, and it were for a dollar.

If Taurus is successful with this "smart-gun" idea that they are working on for us NJ folks, don't be suprised if you see it and its associated legislation in your state too. The only way Taurus will see the error of their ways is for gun-buyers to stick together and hit them where it hurts by not buying their product.
 
Only have experience with one Kel-Tec. It was a P32 I owned. It broke before I could even take it to the range. Oops.

I've only seen one Taurus PTxxx series gun in action. A friend bought it. It broke an average of one part per trip to the range, had frequent failures to fire (weak primer hits), and was never feed-reliable.

For folks that already have Kel-Tecs or Tauruses that work, I'm sure your guns are fine and functional weapons. But I personally wouldn't recommend either one to anybody that I actually liked.
 
I would have to come in on the Kel-Tec side of this debate. I looked at the Taurus PT 111 a few times and always chose the KT over it.

Main reasons being the better customer service that KT is known for, simpler design and a much better trigger pull. The KT has a longer pull, but the Taurus always felt like there was sand in the works somewhere.

I have owned the following Kel-Tecs:

P11-> 3? I know of at least this many, but there may have been 1 or two more in the mix...all reliable and relatively accurate.

P32-> 4...all reliable and relatively accurate

P3AT- 1; I bought this one in early novemebr and absolutely love it.

Mino
 
Only have experience with one Kel-Tec. It was a P32 I owned. It broke before I could even take it to the range. Oops.
Click to expand...
Sean:

Please explain this. How did you break the gun? What happened afterwards... Trash can? Did KT fix it?
 
How did you break the gun?
Click to expand...

Nothing hard. Pulling the trigger did the trick. :rolleyes:

The rest is really none of your business. Suffice it to say I don't own it anymore. :)

As for the PTxxx, I think my friend is getting it fixed by the factory for the umpteenth time so he can sell it in sorta-good conscience.
 
Hmph, I've had a PT-945 for years that never skips a beat and is stored in hellacious conditions. It is rusting a bit on the outside but still works like a champ.

My friend bought both a PT-111 and a PT-140 over a year ago. The 9mm is one of the special editions with the pearl grips. He absolutely loves that gun and we have shot more value packs of WWB than I can count. Gun has yet to fail. We haven't shot his .40 as much. Probably only about 500 rounds or so, but it too has yet to fail. He also bought a Taurus .357. I forget which model but it's a 4" barrel. It's still fairly new with > 500 rounds. I don't forsee any problems with it though.

I also own a P-3AT which I really like. Unfortunately, it has to go back to KT for a little fluff and buff to reliably feed. The exctractor needs serious adjustment or replacement.
 
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