I saw a Kel-Tec in a pawn shop not long ago and now my wheels are spinning. Anyone have any experience with this gun? It looks like a great plinker/varmit gun, weighs about as much as a bb gun, and at around $400 ish is at least half the price of an AR. Right now I really can't get into an AR, so how would a Kel-Tec compare?
Kel-Tec SU 16 pros/cons
- Thread starter jwalk
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rangerruck
Member
well, I have a PLR 16 and love it! Lets face facts, these are mostly plastic, and cannot take a beating or high sustained rate of fire, unless you wanna start melting it. that being said, it takes ar mags, ar rounds, ar sites, ar slings, ar rails, etc., etc. so that is good, if you upgrade later. they are damn accurate, chrome lined 1/7 or 1/9 twist, can't remember which.
They are WAAAYYY cleaner! Since they use the gas piston drive system. i have fired about 600 rounds through my plr so far, and when you lock the bolt back ,the inside of the receiver still looks clean and plasticy shiny!!! me likey.
My plr;
They are WAAAYYY cleaner! Since they use the gas piston drive system. i have fired about 600 rounds through my plr so far, and when you lock the bolt back ,the inside of the receiver still looks clean and plasticy shiny!!! me likey.
My plr;
Nice,
It looks a lot easier to take care of than an AR, but with all the same accessories. As of now I don't really have the cash to melt down the gun on a particular day. I guess it's time to start saving up before I run out and do something rash!
It looks a lot easier to take care of than an AR, but with all the same accessories. As of now I don't really have the cash to melt down the gun on a particular day. I guess it's time to start saving up before I run out and do something rash!
browningguy
Member
Jwalk, we have posted some pretty extensive reviews in the past if you do a search. I own a "A" model, as well as AR15's in .223, 6x45 and .50 Beowulf and would not really compare the two platforms.
Basically a good rifle, not as accurate as a good AR although accurate enough for plinking/HD, much lighter, cheaper, easy to keep clean, and can be stored very compactly. I have an older "A" model, and would prefer the sights and barrel on the "C" model. But I'm happy enough with mine. It's harder to add gadgets to it unless you change out the foreend, but that's not a bad thing in my mind.
Basically a good rifle, not as accurate as a good AR although accurate enough for plinking/HD, much lighter, cheaper, easy to keep clean, and can be stored very compactly. I have an older "A" model, and would prefer the sights and barrel on the "C" model. But I'm happy enough with mine. It's harder to add gadgets to it unless you change out the foreend, but that's not a bad thing in my mind.
browningguy
Member
Why would you abuse your guns?
I seriously don't understand the question. There are a couple of tests posted on the web where owners fired several hundred rounds as fast as they could with no problems. That seems abusive enough to me. I don't use my guns to beat on my shooting buddies at the range, I clean my guns on a fairly regular basis, and try not to leave them laying in the mud for extended periods of time.
I seriously don't understand the question. There are a couple of tests posted on the web where owners fired several hundred rounds as fast as they could with no problems. That seems abusive enough to me. I don't use my guns to beat on my shooting buddies at the range, I clean my guns on a fairly regular basis, and try not to leave them laying in the mud for extended periods of time.
It's a legit question. A Kel-Tec isn't the sort of gun you buy so you can wipe it with an oily rag every 5 minutes, and keep it in a hard case whenever it's not being fired.
I'm interested, too.
It's a neat design. I like the CA version; it folds up really compact but has a relatively substantial buttstock.
But what about the pivots? How durable is the whole thing, if you use it as it appears to be intended, folded up and stashed behind the truck seat?
I'm interested, too.
It's a neat design. I like the CA version; it folds up really compact but has a relatively substantial buttstock.
But what about the pivots? How durable is the whole thing, if you use it as it appears to be intended, folded up and stashed behind the truck seat?
Browningguy,
Thanks, there was a good amount of info. It seems to be a pretty reliable, fun gun. It seems to be a lot easier to care for than an AR. I like the optional bi-pod if you really want to try to reach out and touch something.
Thanks, there was a good amount of info. It seems to be a pretty reliable, fun gun. It seems to be a lot easier to care for than an AR. I like the optional bi-pod if you really want to try to reach out and touch something.
rangerruck
Member
well, if you ask... I have tried several diff mags, metal, g.i. , synthetic, all with not probs. the gi's, I hhad to download for a few, but now i can full load them , if i wish. with the hadnguards, since they have no heat reflection inside them,imagine plastic, that close to a frying pan, mmm melty! if you go over to keltec website, you can see one guys meltdown!
but they are as easy to take down as an ar, and are easy to clean. and are robust enough for sustained aimed fire, because i have taken aimed fire, with 20 round mags, and 30 round mags with it, with no problems, no target drop off, no loss of zero, or heating bbl shift. With all the upgrades to stick on it, they will cost you about 575 or so , with tax. the stripped down version, no sling, no sling attachment, no handguards, exposed bbl, etc. are about 420 or so.
so if you get one, get it like I have there. You dont need the flash hider/muzzle surpressor, but it will deff help. i understand there is an ar one on the market that cuts 93% of the muzzle flip and flash, but they are about 50 to 75 bucks each, depending on where, you get them. that would be best, because this will wanna jump up, as I am sure the su 16 will as well, so i bought this Phantom flash hider, which works well, and is about half the cost of the other one. if i wasn't such a cheap @34sss, I would have bought the other one , though. If you look at them the almost look like a solid cylinder from the sides, until you get up close and see only 4 angled , thn cuts going up the the muzzle.
but they are as easy to take down as an ar, and are easy to clean. and are robust enough for sustained aimed fire, because i have taken aimed fire, with 20 round mags, and 30 round mags with it, with no problems, no target drop off, no loss of zero, or heating bbl shift. With all the upgrades to stick on it, they will cost you about 575 or so , with tax. the stripped down version, no sling, no sling attachment, no handguards, exposed bbl, etc. are about 420 or so.
so if you get one, get it like I have there. You dont need the flash hider/muzzle surpressor, but it will deff help. i understand there is an ar one on the market that cuts 93% of the muzzle flip and flash, but they are about 50 to 75 bucks each, depending on where, you get them. that would be best, because this will wanna jump up, as I am sure the su 16 will as well, so i bought this Phantom flash hider, which works well, and is about half the cost of the other one. if i wasn't such a cheap @34sss, I would have bought the other one , though. If you look at them the almost look like a solid cylinder from the sides, until you get up close and see only 4 angled , thn cuts going up the the muzzle.
browningguy
Member
Armed Bear, not trying to be argumentative but I don't see it as being legitimate. You're getting out of context talking about oiling it down every 5 minutes, he said "abuse". I guess we could discuss what abuse is compared to normal use though. I do agree with you that the CA would be my first choice, I like the stock on my "A", but prefer the barrel and sights on the C/CA.
Here's my thoughts on some sample abuse scenarios:
Will the pins wear out if you take it down once or twice every day for 5 years? No one knows yet, and most don't get used that way, they only get folded/unfolded occassionally. I see this as normal wear and tear really, mine has probably only been folded/unfolded 50 times or so since I've had it but no signs of anything getting loose.
Shooting and not cleaning. Not a problem with the SU, can be a problem with an AR. Using an operating rod rather than directing gas into the action does keep it a lot cleaner.
Drop it in the mud and drive over it with the jeep? Probably going to break.
Butt-stroke the guy shooting next to you at the range? Probably going to break.
The only thing I see as flimsy about the gun is the bipod arrangment with the little springy-looking thingys. I don't use the bipod on mine but it doesn't seem all that robust.
But remember, we're not takeing them to Iraq, just hunting and shooting.
Here's my thoughts on some sample abuse scenarios:
Will the pins wear out if you take it down once or twice every day for 5 years? No one knows yet, and most don't get used that way, they only get folded/unfolded occassionally. I see this as normal wear and tear really, mine has probably only been folded/unfolded 50 times or so since I've had it but no signs of anything getting loose.
Shooting and not cleaning. Not a problem with the SU, can be a problem with an AR. Using an operating rod rather than directing gas into the action does keep it a lot cleaner.
Drop it in the mud and drive over it with the jeep? Probably going to break.
Butt-stroke the guy shooting next to you at the range? Probably going to break.
The only thing I see as flimsy about the gun is the bipod arrangment with the little springy-looking thingys. I don't use the bipod on mine but it doesn't seem all that robust.
But remember, we're not takeing them to Iraq, just hunting and shooting.
Yes and no.
I already have a gun or two to take hunting and shooting. I even have a .223 autoloader.
If the gun can't be folded and unfolded regularly (e.g. to move from under the seat of the jeep to the rifle safe, and back), without wearing out, then the folding feature is a cute gimmick, not a practical feature.
Driving over it with said jeep (yes I actually do drive a jeep) would probably trash most guns, but I think that my 870 might just survive the ordeal, at least in mud as opposed to rock.
As far as whether the thing would fire after being dropped in the mud, there are guns that are famous for doing just that, when called upon.
The question remains: is the gun a neat-o toy, or a serious tool?
I'm not sure what level of "abuse" is legitimate, but if you don't think it would work in Iraq, where our servicemembers maintain their guns rather well, that doesn't recommend it, really.
The only thing which has prevented me for splurging on one yet is the fact that you can't get an adjustable stock for them yet. This is a hindrance if you want to teach a youth to shoot, or if you're getting the rifle specifically for a youth or smaller woman.
For me, the rifle is too damn light - I'd actually want to weigh it down with a bunch of tacticool things, because the default weight is too low. For me, personally, I wish they'd made a couple more things out of stronger materials - such as the front sight and front sight base - but overall I don't think I could complain too much. Main complaint is the lack of a collapseable stock, honestly. Otherwise, I really like it. (I'm waiting for an aftermarket stock to pop up; should be reasonably easy to make.)
For me, the rifle is too damn light - I'd actually want to weigh it down with a bunch of tacticool things, because the default weight is too low. For me, personally, I wish they'd made a couple more things out of stronger materials - such as the front sight and front sight base - but overall I don't think I could complain too much. Main complaint is the lack of a collapseable stock, honestly. Otherwise, I really like it. (I'm waiting for an aftermarket stock to pop up; should be reasonably easy to make.)
Plastic is more self-lubricating than aluminum, and doesn't abrasively wear as easily. I imagine it would wear less than the area around the take-down pins on an AR15, particularly since there is going to be less combusted gunpowder around the area than there would be on an AR.
gaweidert
Member
I have a SU-16A. Got a new one to reward myself for paying off the mortgage a few years ago. I also got a box of Wolf 62 grain fmj to run through it as a test. I was once a QA engineer and I was intrigued by these little rifles. So I got it home, cleaned it up and off to the range. Went through the 1000 rounds in three days. Not one hitch. When I took it apart to clean it up, it was not that hard to do at all. Much faster than with an AR. I purposely used Wolf becasue it is dirtier than most ammunition ou there. It eats everthing I feed it and none of my mags has had any issues with it either. I would go for the C now as it has a shorter, heavier barrel and is probably more accurate as it heats up. Service is great. Folds up nice and small and would be a great backpack gun.
ArfinGreebly
Moderator Emeritus
SU-16A
I recently got one. Here's the range report (sorry, no pics):
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=2868275&highlight=su-16a#post2868275
It eats everything I've been able to feed it.
It takes every standard AR mag I've tried.
It shoots better than I can.
It keeps its action clean.
It's a keeper.
I recently got one. Here's the range report (sorry, no pics):
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=2868275&highlight=su-16a#post2868275
It eats everything I've been able to feed it.
It takes every standard AR mag I've tried.
It shoots better than I can.
It keeps its action clean.
It's a keeper.
rangerruck
Member
no, opening and closing it a million times is fine, also if you need to add weight, the stock is hollow throught the bottom, and will hold two10 round mags, or 1 30 rounder on it's side. also , you can fire it from the folded postition, not the a version , though, plus I don't like the front site on the A version anyway.
I have only picked up this gun for a short time at a store but......
Lots of guys look at an AR as a $1000 gun.Yes you can spend that or lots more in a blink of an eye but that isn't the whole story. Around my area in the Northeast the big discount gun store sells a DPMS fixed carry handle carbine brand new for $685. If you buy a complete lower fron the same gunstore (Bushmaster or Rock River is available) you will spend $260-$295 and you can pick up a plain jane (again fixed carry handle) upper thru the mail (lowers are guns,the uppers are accesorys in the eyes of the law and you buy or sell them like a scope mount or set of grips) and be out the door for about the same. Building your own lower (takes a couple of hours the first time as you read along with the directions)can save another $40-$60
You might get another 5% on the christmass sale or scrounge around and pick up a similar gun used . My point is a used kel tech for $400 vs a used DPMS or Olympic is really more like a $150-200 difference. The Kel Tech is what it is without much to "fix" it up,The AR is buying into a weapon system that has an unbelieveable array of "stuff" that you can add to make it do anything you desire.
If you buy a used or new Kel Tech and wear out or break something you more or less have to deal with the factory. Any brand AR will be fixed up in no time by any number of gunsmiths or hobby gun nuts by swapping out a couple of parts available from any number of suppliers.
You also have to consider future resale value. Even the slightly less desiriable Ar brands will hold their value almost beter than money in the bank,the Kel-tec is really a unknown but you would have to search out a buyer,a good used AR will be snapped up pretty quick.
Don't cheep yourself out,save your pennys,get a part time job,whatever you have to do.
Did I mention I like ARs?
Lots of guys look at an AR as a $1000 gun.Yes you can spend that or lots more in a blink of an eye but that isn't the whole story. Around my area in the Northeast the big discount gun store sells a DPMS fixed carry handle carbine brand new for $685. If you buy a complete lower fron the same gunstore (Bushmaster or Rock River is available) you will spend $260-$295 and you can pick up a plain jane (again fixed carry handle) upper thru the mail (lowers are guns,the uppers are accesorys in the eyes of the law and you buy or sell them like a scope mount or set of grips) and be out the door for about the same. Building your own lower (takes a couple of hours the first time as you read along with the directions)can save another $40-$60
You might get another 5% on the christmass sale or scrounge around and pick up a similar gun used . My point is a used kel tech for $400 vs a used DPMS or Olympic is really more like a $150-200 difference. The Kel Tech is what it is without much to "fix" it up,The AR is buying into a weapon system that has an unbelieveable array of "stuff" that you can add to make it do anything you desire.
If you buy a used or new Kel Tech and wear out or break something you more or less have to deal with the factory. Any brand AR will be fixed up in no time by any number of gunsmiths or hobby gun nuts by swapping out a couple of parts available from any number of suppliers.
You also have to consider future resale value. Even the slightly less desiriable Ar brands will hold their value almost beter than money in the bank,the Kel-tec is really a unknown but you would have to search out a buyer,a good used AR will be snapped up pretty quick.
Don't cheep yourself out,save your pennys,get a part time job,whatever you have to do.
Did I mention I like ARs?
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