Kel-Tec Su-16B - Mini-Range report

[billyp]

Just got a Kel-tec su-16b last week and took it to the range on Saturday. Initial impressions are not that great. Using the stock mags I had a FTE/ FTF every other shot. Several of the rounds had the bullet pushed into the casing, not my idea of a good time. So after much frustration with the first mag I switched to the second same problem. By this time I was getting a little upset, and luckily I had some other 30rd mags I bough so I threw one of those in and could at least shoot a few times in a row without having to mess with my gun to clear the chamber of spent rounds.

Out of the box accuracy was non-existent. With a steady rest it was about 4ft high at 200yds. After seeing that and the previous problems I decided it was too dangerous to shoot without properly sighting in the weapon for fear of a ricochet off the berm.

All in all I’m not too terribly impressed with this gun right now…I keep thinking I should have just spent the cash and got a real ar-15.

I will take it out again next weekend after I look at these stock mags to see if I can make any mods to improve the reliability of feeding.

Anyone else have this kind of problem and if so what where you able to do anything to fix it?

Thanks,
billyp

 

[Shear_stress]

Out of curiosity, did you shoot the gun at closer range or attempt to adjust the sights? 200 yard accuracy may be asking a lot for a rifle that hasn't been sighted in. Also, what kind of ammo were you using? The magazine thing is annoying, but quality AR mags are cheap and plentiful. Keep us posted.

 

[mnrivrat]

It sounds a bit like you had some failures to extract. Did you clean the chamber and gun prior to shooting ? Some factory preservitives in the chamber may have caused your extraction problems.

When you say some bullets were pushed into the casing I assume that these came from trying to feed into a chamber that still had an empty brass in it. You also mentioned cleaning the chamber of spent rounds. You may not have a feeding problem.

Try scrubbing the chamber out with a brass brush and solvent before going to the range if you haven't already. Also look at doing a sight in at a closer range .

 

[Jackal]

200 yards out of the box? Seriously, start at no farther than 50 for sight in.

 

[browningguy]

We had a mini-14 doing this at a 3 gun shoot a couple of years ago. Turns out the guy running the shoot went and bought it that morning, and no one thought to clean it.

So first thing to do, disassemble and clean everything, including the bolt. The good news about the SU is you won't have to do that very often, they stay remarkably clean. Even after bore sighting I always start on the 50 or 100 yard range. At 100 it might be within 6-8 inches of POA, but might not.

You might have to try some different ammo when looking for the best accuracy. My "A" model was a 2.5" gun until I tried the Black Hill reload 52 gr. HP Moly, that suddenly turned it into a 1.25-1.5" gun. My "C" model really likes the Black Hills 55 gr. SP (the second load I tried) so well that I probably won't try any more. I've only shot it at 50 yards so far, but had some .6-.75" groups with this load. It shot the Remington 50 gr. JHP pretty well also.

Don't fool yourself into thinking they are benchrest rifles though, the triggers are too heavy and the barrels too thin. Both of mine are minute of coyote, maybe to 200 yards on a decent day.

 

[Srigs]

Clean and oil it up real good. Then shoot it.

Next join www.ktog.org to find out about your rifle. One thing that is mentioned on the forum is to take the bolt and smooth the bottom of it to remove or at least smooth out the park coating. Hope this helps.

 

[billyp]

Jackal: Normally I would not have done that , but there were a bunch of bench rest people on the 100 yd range, and the place I shoot does not allow anything except the specified distance so I could not shoot any less than the 200. I would have expected a little better from the factory but I guess not.

I did give it the once over and everythign looked good before I shot it but I will clean and re-oil it then try again this weekend. Thanks for the input so far.

edit:
The ammo I was shooting was WWB and wolf. I cannot get black hills around here.

Billyp

 

[rde]

I agree that a thorough cleaning and starting out at a much closer distance will be very helpful. I have the "A" model. I had some problems with extraction and thought (based on some reading) that I might have the replace the extractor. HOWEVER, all problems were solved by not using the factory supplied 10 rounders and switching over to USGI 20 round magazines that I bought for new 9.99 per mag. I was initially a little dissappointed at first but the "fix" for mine turned out to be something very simple and the rifle has now proven to be very reliable.

 

[browningguy]

I can hardly find Black Hills in Houston either, but mail order is great. Just got in two packages, one from http://www.bosesguns.com and one from http://www.northwestloadingsupply.com . It was my first order from both and they were very easy to deal with, both of them have an even bigger selection of Black Hills than Midway.

 

[MechAg94]

I have NEVER seen a new gun that didn't require some sighting in. You got what I would expect to see, ball park accuracy. What have you been shooting that led you to expect 200 yard accuracy out of the box? I would wager any AR you get would require sighting in as well.
I have gotten a couple of surplus guns that were pretty much dead on first shot. The best new gun accuracy with the stock sights I have seen would be lever guns with the stock sights. I didn't try 200 yards though.

I usually shoot a few rounds at 25 yards starting out with any rifle. That way you can see where the shots are going even if they are pretty wild and make the initial sighting adjustments.

I agree with the advice for a thorough cleaning before passing judgment on the functionality. The manual may tell you something as well.

 

[JohnKSa]

I would have expected a little better from the factory but I guess not.

Most of the fixed sighted guns I have bought have shot pretty close to point of aim. Most of the adjustable sighted guns I have bought have required a good bit of adjustment to do the same.

If you had taken an unsighted rifle to one range I'm a member of and shot it first at the 200yard range without sighting it in at 25 or 50 yards first, you would be ejected and asked not to return. In other words, not only is it unreasonable to expect a rifle to shoot to point of aim from the factory, there is also a safety issue in shooting an unsighted rifle at long distances--as you discovered.

 

[nemoaz]

Don't forget to clean the mags too!

Had someone recently complain about some FTF in a Glock. You could hear the crunchiness of the mags when you compressed the spring. He said he had NEVER cleaned the mags and had been carrying the weapon every day as a LEO and shooting at least once a year for over a decade.

There are some pretty bad AR mags out there and a few websites to guide you through selecting good ones.

 

[billyp]

JohnKSA: Safety is always a concern of mine, and I had a spotter checking the POI to make sure we were on the berm. There is also a 300 and 400 yd berms on the same range so there I was not just randomly shooting without thinking about what was beyond my target. As stated before the 100 yd was full, and I had expected a little better accuracy than 2ft over at 200yds. and in my opinion were not unsafe by any means with a 15 or 20 ft berm.

Also, I did not continue to shoot after we discovered the problem. I will be sighting the rifle in properly this weekend and will let you know how it goes.

Thanks again for all the info.

Billyp

 

[JohnKSa]

Safety is always a concern of mine, and I had a spotter checking the POI to make sure we were on the berm.

If it hadn't hit the berm, how was the spotter going to bring it back? All it takes is one unlucky round over the berm to close down the range and that's not the worst possible outcome by far.

I'm not ragging on you--others will read this thread. It's a good lesson.