marv
Member
I have owned few KelTec's through the years. P32, P3AT, PF9. P11(2), S2K/Glock. Still have the PF9. No problems with any.
Kel-Tec : What's the Latest Opinion ?
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I have a PLR-22 from them. It's a very fun range plinker, but can be a jam-o-matic with anything but the one kind of ammo I found that it likes (federal blue-box bulk). And it still jams even with its favorite ammo after it has a few rounds through it. It is also prone to rust on a few parts - luckily the receiver is plastic and the barrel seems to be corrosion resistant for the most part.
I also really want to try their RFB and KSG models, but given their reputation and the quality I've experience from them, I would say the current prices on both of these are over twice what I'd pay for them.
I would never trust a KT for use as a carry piece, and wouldn't trust any of their tacticool offerings for use in an actual tactical operation. For the most part I consider them to be nothing but a range-toy manufacturer.
I also really want to try their RFB and KSG models, but given their reputation and the quality I've experience from them, I would say the current prices on both of these are over twice what I'd pay for them.
I would never trust a KT for use as a carry piece, and wouldn't trust any of their tacticool offerings for use in an actual tactical operation. For the most part I consider them to be nothing but a range-toy manufacturer.
MachIVshooter
Member
Can't produce them at a rate that satiates the market would be more accurate. KT is quite successful, and is actually the 3rd largest handgun maker in the USA, after Ruger and S&W.
Yeah, I wish they'd tool up some new production lines. Conservatism is wise when unsure of the market, but I think it's pretty obvious now that there are plenty of people to buy more (much more) of their products. However, the business model works for them, and unless something has changed, KT employees are very happy with their jobs.
As for their quality, yeah, they've put out some lemons, probably more at times than other big name manufacturers. It is unfortunate, and I'm fairly confident that people would pay a little more for their products to have improved QC. That said, their quality these days is really pretty good, and very few new designs are without issues. Well, when you're cranking out new (and innovative) designs almost annually like KT, that paradigm is going to apply in spades.
I have had 7, still own 4 of them, will buy more. Very neat guns, generally economical pricing, and customer service that is truly second to none.
wow6599
Member
Fair enough, but that's still like finishing 3rd to Secretariat in the 1973 Belmont Stakes.
MICHAEL T
Member
I have 3 of the P-32 1 -380 and a PF-9 Not had a bit of trouble from any of them . Ladies in house have all latched on to the 32's . I still carry the 380 and the PF-9.
My dealer sells a lot of them . He can't get any 32's as I am look for another one for last daughter . She doesn't care for the 380 .
My dealer sells a lot of them . He can't get any 32's as I am look for another one for last daughter . She doesn't care for the 380 .
v8stang289
Member
I've had a P3AT for a little over 4 years and I've put about 400 rounds through it. It is my always carry gun because it can easily be carried in a pocket and has been 100% in feeding, extracting, and firing. The only issue I ever had with it was the magazine release. It is made of plastic and inserting a mag wears it. After 2.5 years of pocket carry the mag would sometimes release upon firing the gun. I emailed Kel-tec and 2 days later had a new mag release and spring in my mailbox. I've intended to make a replacement out of aluminum but like so many projects it's been on the back burner.
There were a lot of owners and jockeys that wished they had finished 3rd in 1973. As a matter of fact only 2 didn't. Every other one in the country would have loved that 3rd place finish
Many here are saying that there gun has been great, after they had a part replaced, when they feed it a particular type of ammo, when they don't shoot too many rounds through it, after they modified something.........
The going trend seems to be that these are great ideas at great prices that we really want to be great products......... But.
The going trend seems to be that these are great ideas at great prices that we really want to be great products......... But.
Having just moved from NJ, (Thank You Lord) you must either be a LEO or the Governor if you are able to carry anything outside your house
I had a P11, and currently own a P3AT and KSG. I agree regarding comfort level when shooting. The P3AT serves it's intended purpose, but is certainly NOT a range gun. It is probably the MOST uncomfortable pistol to shoot in our collection. My wife is also a shooter and instructor, and positively hates shooting this pistol.
On the other hand, there have not been any malfunctions to this point, the KSG will be going to the range on Saturday, and a PMR30 is on the list to acquire. Like I really NEED another caliber to stock :banghead:
Walt Sherrill
Member
Re: hitting your hand with a hammer...
I've found that the KTADDONS grip material makes a noticeable difference. I've used it with a P3AT, and LCP, and now have it on my PF9. I also have a Kahr CM9 that I may carry instead of the PF9, and may try it the material with it, as well.
Check their website -- I have no connection to it, just a satisfied customer. Here's a link:
http://www.ktaddons.com/
I'm on SEVERAL waiting lists, awaiting a PMR-30. I've had a number of K-T products and never had a problem. I only have the PF9 at present, but really regret selling the SUB 2000 in 9mm. Later got one in .40, and found the recoil unpleasant -- while the 9mm was not only pleasant, but surprisingly accurate!!
I've found that the KTADDONS grip material makes a noticeable difference. I've used it with a P3AT, and LCP, and now have it on my PF9. I also have a Kahr CM9 that I may carry instead of the PF9, and may try it the material with it, as well.
Check their website -- I have no connection to it, just a satisfied customer. Here's a link:
http://www.ktaddons.com/
I'm on SEVERAL waiting lists, awaiting a PMR-30. I've had a number of K-T products and never had a problem. I only have the PF9 at present, but really regret selling the SUB 2000 in 9mm. Later got one in .40, and found the recoil unpleasant -- while the 9mm was not only pleasant, but surprisingly accurate!!
I've read in this forum from a number of readers that gun writers never write anything bad. However, in my stack of magazines I have two separate articles where the P3AT performed miserably. In one test, the gun had to be retired. Could just be bad luck in both tests.
OTOH, the P11 and PF9 have always gotten good reviews, save for hand punishment from the PF9.
Personally, I'd be fine with the P11.
OTOH, the P11 and PF9 have always gotten good reviews, save for hand punishment from the PF9.
Personally, I'd be fine with the P11.
Texron
Member
Ditto!
Texron
Member
Sorry I messed up my reply. I meant to ditto the user who never had a problem with his P-32.
justice06rr
Member
Uh... Compared to other quality manufacturers?
I bet you would not get as much troubles from many Glock, Sig, or S&W owners.
I'm not a Brand snob or Keltec hater. I did previously own a PF9 that I bought NIB and it had malfunctions out of the box. I try to give every manufacturer a chance and try out different brands fairly, but if they perform poorly in my personal experience then that's saying something. I've even owned 3 Taurus pistols that have been flawless so IMHO they're better than Keltec, but in other people's views Taurus is still a poor company.
If there is any substance to a ISO 9001:2008 Certification; then maybe Kel-Tecs quality is going to increase?
http://www.theoutdoorwire.com/story/13823336965gqsu6jqmfz
http://www.theoutdoorwire.com/story/13823336965gqsu6jqmfz
I have a p11 but no longer carry it and will likely sell it.
I bought it around Feb 2012 and had two extractors break and the trigger bar spring slipped out and the gun couldn't work again without a detail strip. It also had a lot of trouble feeding ammo, especially hollow point, and this was AFTER I sent it back to Kel Tec for them to polish the feed ramp.
I would buy another Kel Tec product in theory (like sub 2k) but there are other things higher on my list.
I bought it around Feb 2012 and had two extractors break and the trigger bar spring slipped out and the gun couldn't work again without a detail strip. It also had a lot of trouble feeding ammo, especially hollow point, and this was AFTER I sent it back to Kel Tec for them to polish the feed ramp.
I would buy another Kel Tec product in theory (like sub 2k) but there are other things higher on my list.
CoRoMo
Member
Their prompt and attentive customer service does not shine enough light to remove the shadow cast by the quality of their products.
I've carried a P11 for many years now.
There is nothing at all in the market that compares to a 13rd 9mm of this size. If Ruger would copy this model, I'd take great joy in tossing this P11 into the trashcan. It's cheaply made and has experienced one broken ejector and a trigger bar issue. Kel Tec immediately shipped me all the replacement parts involved free of charge, even against my wishes.
The trigger bar and spring did not need to be replaced and were not replaced (I tossed the new ones in a drawer somewhere after they arrived). I emailed them for advice and input on the operation of the trigger bar and spring and they shipped me new ones? I only needed an answer but didn't get one; I got parts instead and just figured out the issue for myself.
The ejector just mysteriously broke. Not during shooting or any evident event. I went to unload the pistol one day and the slide/extractor just held the round without ejecting it. Couldn't find the broken piece of ejector anywhere either. The gun was in the middle of the normal carry routine and it was out of order. I could understand if it would break while I'm shooting it and I would notice the malfunction, but just ignorantly carrying around a pistol without knowing that it's broken was disconcerting.
This pistol has not ever, ever had a single feed/extract/ammo/mag malfunction while shooting though. Never.
I absolutely hate the soft polymer that they used in this pistol. The mags don't drop free and the factory sights are complete trash. When I get around to buying a good holster, I'm going to start carrying my much larger G19. I might never touch this pistol again after that, we'll see.
If this pistol had not shot 100% reliable, I would have gotten rid of it long ago. The low quality of the system makes me hate this stupid pistol. The reliability, size, and capacity keep it on my hip.
I've carried a P11 for many years now.
There is nothing at all in the market that compares to a 13rd 9mm of this size. If Ruger would copy this model, I'd take great joy in tossing this P11 into the trashcan. It's cheaply made and has experienced one broken ejector and a trigger bar issue. Kel Tec immediately shipped me all the replacement parts involved free of charge, even against my wishes.
The trigger bar and spring did not need to be replaced and were not replaced (I tossed the new ones in a drawer somewhere after they arrived). I emailed them for advice and input on the operation of the trigger bar and spring and they shipped me new ones? I only needed an answer but didn't get one; I got parts instead and just figured out the issue for myself.
The ejector just mysteriously broke. Not during shooting or any evident event. I went to unload the pistol one day and the slide/extractor just held the round without ejecting it. Couldn't find the broken piece of ejector anywhere either. The gun was in the middle of the normal carry routine and it was out of order. I could understand if it would break while I'm shooting it and I would notice the malfunction, but just ignorantly carrying around a pistol without knowing that it's broken was disconcerting.
This pistol has not ever, ever had a single feed/extract/ammo/mag malfunction while shooting though. Never.
I absolutely hate the soft polymer that they used in this pistol. The mags don't drop free and the factory sights are complete trash. When I get around to buying a good holster, I'm going to start carrying my much larger G19. I might never touch this pistol again after that, we'll see.
If this pistol had not shot 100% reliable, I would have gotten rid of it long ago. The low quality of the system makes me hate this stupid pistol. The reliability, size, and capacity keep it on my hip.
tcanthonyii
Member
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I don't know how anyone can really complain about a keltec. Sure some guns aren't pleasant to shoot. The pf9 and p3at come to mind. But ruger sells almost direct copies of these two guns so they must have a good design.
In my experience I have had not but excellent results with them. I did wear out an extractor on a p3at but other than that they all work amazingly well and are rather inexpensive.
In my experience I have had not but excellent results with them. I did wear out an extractor on a p3at but other than that they all work amazingly well and are rather inexpensive.
WolverineFury
Member
Hm, this conversation makes me question. Did KT come out with the P32/P11 before Ruger came out with the LCP/LC9? I had always assumed that they were independent designs, but I have only been paying attention to stuff like that very recently. Does anyone know who had the original design?
Walt Sherrill
Member
Yes. But those are unrelated designs.
The LCP is a close copy of the Kel-Tec P3AT, which (along with the PF9) is later design than the P32. The LC9 is a close copy of the PF-9, which is quite a bit different (and later) than the P-11. The PF-9 came out quite a while before Ruger made the LC9.
The Ruger versions aren't dramatically better, but are somewhat refined versions of the Kel-Tec designs, and cosmetically prettier. I've owned the P3AT and LCP, and found -- for me -- the LCP a bit better, because of a noticeably larger trigger guard. The P3AT jammed my trigger finger when firing (during recoil); my son used the gun and did NOT have that problem.
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dusty14u
Member
I bought my PF9 in early 2007. They were introduced at the SHOT show that year. LC9 came out in 2011. The P3AT was introduced in 2004 and the LCP in 2008.
Before that you could buy a Rohrbaugh or Seecamp that were small and concealable but quite a bit more money. After KT introduced their models most manufacturers got on the bandwagon, S&W- Ruger- Kahr- Diamondback.
v8stang289
Member
I'm pretty sure Kel-Tec released the p32 (p3at came later, ETA: 2004 per dusty14u above) about 10 years before Ruger unveiled the LCP.
WolverineFury
Member
Cool, thanks for the answers. I never realized that the majority these ultra-compact guns are still relatively new.
evan price
Member
I bought my Sub-2000 after searching for one and suddenly one was traded in at my LGS. Great gun, only malfunction I ever had was with my lead RN reloads, because I was loading my 9mm on the lower end of the charge range. Bumped up the powder by .2 of a grain and never had another problem.
Bought my PF9 in early 2008 during the first Obama craze, got a gun that was very very early in production, from the first run, used.
It was a total jammomatic piece of crap.
I fluffed it and buffed it and shot it and polished it. It never failed to FTF or FTE or the mag fell out. I tried a stronger grip, I tried different ammo, just fail after fail. It spent time in the safe and I sulked about wasting my money and the last time I tried to shoot it before I was going to sell it, the assembly pin snapped and the mag fell out.
Sent it back to KelTec intending that it would be immediately sold after I got it back. KT basically lifted up the slide and slid a new gun under it.
I figured what the heck and took it to the range.
Night.
And.
Day.
Better.
This gun was nothing like it was before. It worked. I tried underpowered and overpowered ammo- heavy hollowpoints, WWB, lead RN, light semi-wadcutters even. I tried weak handing it, limp wristing it, holding it upside down and sideways and it just.plain.worked.
I did a mild fluff and buff and did some shaving on the grip to get it to fit how I wanted. And I carry that sucker now.
I liked it so much I got another one.
It's not for everybody. It has spirited recoil. It'scheap and ugly and it shoots 9mm +P and fits in your pocket.
I figure what better gun to leave in a police evidence locker after a SD shooting?
Bought my PF9 in early 2008 during the first Obama craze, got a gun that was very very early in production, from the first run, used.
It was a total jammomatic piece of crap.
I fluffed it and buffed it and shot it and polished it. It never failed to FTF or FTE or the mag fell out. I tried a stronger grip, I tried different ammo, just fail after fail. It spent time in the safe and I sulked about wasting my money and the last time I tried to shoot it before I was going to sell it, the assembly pin snapped and the mag fell out.
Sent it back to KelTec intending that it would be immediately sold after I got it back. KT basically lifted up the slide and slid a new gun under it.
I figured what the heck and took it to the range.
Night.
And.
Day.
Better.
This gun was nothing like it was before. It worked. I tried underpowered and overpowered ammo- heavy hollowpoints, WWB, lead RN, light semi-wadcutters even. I tried weak handing it, limp wristing it, holding it upside down and sideways and it just.plain.worked.
I did a mild fluff and buff and did some shaving on the grip to get it to fit how I wanted. And I carry that sucker now.
I liked it so much I got another one.
It's not for everybody. It has spirited recoil. It'scheap and ugly and it shoots 9mm +P and fits in your pocket.
I figure what better gun to leave in a police evidence locker after a SD shooting?
KT has a reputation like High Point.
They are cheap, therefore they are junk.
Mine fell apart.
Mine wouldn't feed any type of ammo.
My friend had one that was terrible.
Substitute positive experiences in any of the above sentences for the opposite views.
Any person purporting to be a dealer and claiming they have bad experiences with KT compared to other guns is not being honest. Of course they have issues but if you shoot enough you will have issues with every gun made. These are the same gun gurus that say "If it ain't a Glock it's a block". Maybe that's why they "used" to be in the business.
I own several KT firearms and I had trouble with exactly one of them. The first I ever bought was a PF9 bought used from a pawn shop. I had many, many, light strikes and eventually put the gun in a drawer and didn't shoot it for a year. The next time I was in Orlando I took the gun to KT and found that it had a P-11 barrel on it. They basically rebuilt the pistol and handed it back to me 3 hours later.
Yesterday afternoon I took a woman shooting that hadn't fired a gun in 10 years. We shot a P3AT, PF-9, 9mm carbine and PMR-30. No misfires with any of the guns. Meanwhile I have a Ruger P-85 that is jamming every other shot when using certain ammo so I use it for clearing drills. Ran that same ammo through the PF-9 and "bang" every time. I now know exactly what ammo to run through the Ruger. Believe it or not it is 100% with Tula Brass Max and WWB.
I carry the P3AT and I don't think I have ever had a FTF of any kind through a couple thousand rounds using many types of ammo. Never a problem with the PMR 30. Same with the carbine. The PF-9 was a nightmare but is now perfect and may go back in my pocket.
The trigger on the P3AT isn't wonderful but this woman shot it 18 times with no issues at all. She preferred the Bodyguard 380 but I think that may have been the laser more than the trigger. I like the Bodyguard but it is twice the price.
They are fine guns that do what they are intended to do. The pistols cost $200 (in the real world) and I have never seen one have a catastrophic failure though I'm sure that occurs on occasion. I would recommend KT to anyone looking to purchase a dependable and inexpensive gun. I would then recommend that they run a lot of rounds through it before depending on it for defense just like you need to do with any gun you but.
They are cheap, therefore they are junk.
Mine fell apart.
Mine wouldn't feed any type of ammo.
My friend had one that was terrible.
Substitute positive experiences in any of the above sentences for the opposite views.
Any person purporting to be a dealer and claiming they have bad experiences with KT compared to other guns is not being honest. Of course they have issues but if you shoot enough you will have issues with every gun made. These are the same gun gurus that say "If it ain't a Glock it's a block". Maybe that's why they "used" to be in the business.
I own several KT firearms and I had trouble with exactly one of them. The first I ever bought was a PF9 bought used from a pawn shop. I had many, many, light strikes and eventually put the gun in a drawer and didn't shoot it for a year. The next time I was in Orlando I took the gun to KT and found that it had a P-11 barrel on it. They basically rebuilt the pistol and handed it back to me 3 hours later.
Yesterday afternoon I took a woman shooting that hadn't fired a gun in 10 years. We shot a P3AT, PF-9, 9mm carbine and PMR-30. No misfires with any of the guns. Meanwhile I have a Ruger P-85 that is jamming every other shot when using certain ammo so I use it for clearing drills. Ran that same ammo through the PF-9 and "bang" every time. I now know exactly what ammo to run through the Ruger. Believe it or not it is 100% with Tula Brass Max and WWB.
I carry the P3AT and I don't think I have ever had a FTF of any kind through a couple thousand rounds using many types of ammo. Never a problem with the PMR 30. Same with the carbine. The PF-9 was a nightmare but is now perfect and may go back in my pocket.
The trigger on the P3AT isn't wonderful but this woman shot it 18 times with no issues at all. She preferred the Bodyguard 380 but I think that may have been the laser more than the trigger. I like the Bodyguard but it is twice the price.
They are fine guns that do what they are intended to do. The pistols cost $200 (in the real world) and I have never seen one have a catastrophic failure though I'm sure that occurs on occasion. I would recommend KT to anyone looking to purchase a dependable and inexpensive gun. I would then recommend that they run a lot of rounds through it before depending on it for defense just like you need to do with any gun you but.
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