Keltec Rifle Forward Ejection Bullpup

[leadcounsel]

Looking at this weapon which is slated for sale in 2008. I'm keen on the bullpup design, but nobody seems to do it right.

Keltec has an interesting ejection idea. The port pushes the spent case FORWARD along a channel above the barrel and ejects the case out the front.

I don't understand this principal and it seems very complicated. It also seems prone to jamming and failure, particulary if the weapon is pointed at an upward angle.

Anyone have experience with this weapon?

 

[benEzra]

I believe the cases are shoved out with significant force, such that gravity or an obstruction shouldn't impair ejection.

An RFB is on my "wish list" at the moment. I really like the concept.

 

[Ian]

There's nothing inherently inferior about forward ejection. Many of the early machine gun designs (Maxim, Vickers) ejected cases forwards. It would take a lot more than shooting upwards to cause a failure, assuming KelTec's engineers have even half a brain. I'm really looking forward to getting an RFB.

 

[J Star]

The FN FS2000 and F2000 both eject cases forward in a tube. Search You Tube for videos. They jam stuff inthe tube trying to get it to mess up, and the rifle just blows everything out of the ejection port.

This is like holding a P90 upside down and firing full auto. (P90 is bottom ejection.) It's designed to blow out the obstruction so that it doesn't jam up.

 

[Bartholomew Roberts]

I have to say that not much by Keltec has caught my attention; but an 18" barreled .308 that is 6" shorter than a collapsed stock LE6920 sure is one way to do it.

 

[RedLion]

From their site it looks like the bolt slamming forward is what pushes the cases forward, so I would bet it would have more than enough force for anything unintentional in the tube.

 

[rcmodel]

Anyone have experience with this weapon?

They announced the RFB over 1 1/2 years ago at the 2007 Shot Show.

Then they announced it again at the 2008 Shot Show in February.

So far, none have been produced for sale.

Only a few pre-production samples exist at this point.

rcmodel

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Kel Tec is notorious for not getting actual products into the hands of dealers/distributors. We may or may not ever see it. The RFB should come out just in time to coincide with the law that bans it. If it comes out before that, say in the next year, then I'll be getting one. Looks like it works well from the videos. But Kel-Tec's production capacity is so limited, and their demand is quite high on their pistols, I just don't know how they're gonna crank these out to a reasonable standard of quality.

 

[Auburn1992]

Anybody have a ballpark idea as to how much this will cost?

 

[CBS220]

I heard a little over $2000.

I also heard it was coming out in 2007.

 

[rangerruck]

forward ejection is actually superior in every way, to any other type of ejection.
think of it yourself for just a moment;
forward ejection means no-----
passing by your eyeballs for distraction.
no lodging in the chinstrap of a lefty.
no brass in the back of the bradley or apc. to slip on, break your neck, etc.
can fire from inside the bradley or apc.
can fire forward without going deaf.
can fire with the muzzle , and most of the bbl, completely out any portal.
This could go on and on. But it is better for a ton of reasons. Also for the health and accuracy of the weapon.

 

[chauncey]

Keltec has an interesting ejection idea. The port pushes the spent case FORWARD along a channel above the barrel and ejects the case out the front.

I don't understand this principal and it seems very complicated. It also seems prone to jamming and failure, particulary if the weapon is pointed at an upward angle.

it's so you can shoot out of the window of your pickup truck, without bouncing brass off the windshield.

seriously, I think the original idea for forward ejection came from shooting out of the side of an APC.

can you imagine 8 Russians all shooting out of the side of their APC? the brass bouncing around the inside itself would be murderous.

 

[Evil Monkey]

can you imagine 8 Russians all shooting out of the side of their APC? the brass bouncing around the inside itself would be murderous.

What about 8 soldiers with full auto G3's?

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

I can hear the anti's now: "These rifles should be banned because they're favored by gangsters for drive-by shootings, since hot brass doesn't fly around the car."

 

[leadcounsel]

How does one clear brass that gets stuck during extraction down this little tube?

 

[Gudis]

RE: clearing a jam
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1179942885

 

[kBob]

Re: brass in Soviet APC

The BMP I examined in 1981 had brass catchers mounted for each position.

One model of the US prototype dedicated Firing port weapon (imagine a 12 inch CAR with a retractable grease gun type stock) was pictured with a brass catcher in place in an early MICV/ Bradley.

Back in the 1970s one of the German armored recon vehicles had ball mounts on each side set up to mount the then standard in the West German Army UZI SMG in at it had brass catcher bags for the guns.

-Bob Hollingsworth

 

[Wes Janson]

On a sidenote, I once had the pleasure of dumping a magazine or so through a port firing weapon. It took me two or three attempts to close the bolt before I realized it was an open-bolt M16 variant. It's entirely possible that that weapon had the singularly worst triggerpull of any firearm I've ever had the opportunity to shoot...they made damn sure that you'd only open fire with it if you really well intended to do so.

 

[briansmithwins]

Like most completely new designs, I'd only buy one after it's been out for a year or more and has the bugs worked out.

I don't like being an unpaid alpha tester.

BSW

 

[hankdatank1362]

I don't like the idea of the action (and thusly, the explosion) going on about one inch away from my head.

But after about a year of success from other buyers, I'd be willing to give it a try.

 

[PLRinmypocket]

don't like the idea of the action (and thusly, the explosion) going on about one inch away from my head.

That's one of the downsides of any bullpup design. you move the chamber back so the magazine is behind the grip, it is of course going to be closer to your head. Just one of the inevitable tradeoffs of a very compact weapon.

At least the RFB has 2 layers of steel between your face and the chamber.

 

[everallm]

I don't like the idea of the action (and thusly, the explosion) going on about one inch away from my head.

No real difference to any bolt action........

 

[Ash]

Yeah, there is a difference. The bolt action, like any traditional auto, has the chamber well before the face. In Bull Pup layouts, the chamber is alongside the ear or cheek. In other words, the most violent forces are not in front of the face but beside the head.

Whether or not that is an issue I do not comment, merely the reason for the concern.

Ash

 

[Wes Janson]

But do you have an equal unwillingness to shoot an M17, an AUG, an FS2000, a PS90, or an SA80?

 

[Kind of Blued]

As long as it goes bang reliably, a .308 magazine-fed semi-auto with an 18" bbl and 26" overall length is hard to complain about.

Not sure if I'll be able to have the money waiting when they hit the shelves, but hopefully I can get one eventually.

They're actually pretty decent looking too, which is, apparently, the inherent flaw with bullpups.