Kids Building ARs, Difficulties You’ve Faced?

[Skylerbone]

Well that title is clear as mud! Here’s what I mean: I have 3 children, ages 9, 11, & 14. Rather than reward them monetarily for doing chores or grades or even helping each other out, I’ve decided on an AR build program. Each will earn parts of their choosing (style/color/etc.) commensurate with the effort put forth until they have a full lower build kit. Keep in mind this summer I’ll be adding 3 to the kid count and they all fall into the same age range which means 6 rifles in total.

The questions I have are numerous, but rather than asking a dozen things, I’d like some input if you have time about any pitfalls (flying springs, proprietary rails) you’ve run in to while allowing your youngsters to assemble a rifle (lower) and if an upper might make more sense in completed form.

Monday night I put my first lower together after watching a YouTube video last week and on review after, no steps were missed. Thing is, the only specialty tools I had were an armorer’s wrench and my trusty beam style torque wrench (used a wood block in the bench vise). Start to function check was about 35 minutes and it checked out. This leads to my only other question: if that isn’t enough for young hands to do it properly, which specific tools, by brand as well, should I be looking at?

Everyone is on board and I’ve told them once they are of legal age to posses their rifle it is theirs to do with as they see fit, including selling it and cashing out. Thank you in advance as always for your time.

 

[WestKentucky]

Only thing I would not let little hands do is the takedown pins, and possibly the bolt catch. Everything else is legos. Do the assembly over hardwood or vinyl flooring with minimal crud in the room for detents and springs to hide in when they escape.

 

[JeeperCreeper]

This is a cool thread. But also one I'd like to weigh-in on in a conversation vs typing on a phone. So I may get to my computer later for a more comprehensive answer since we can't chat in person.

Basically, I'd make sure the kids really want an AR. As a kid, I loved my bolt .22 more than anything. Including cool tactical gadgets.

Secondly, I've built ARs from a multitude of parts. For me, the easiest were keeping brands the same (ex Anderson parts in an Anderson lower) as even premium parts were a pain in various lowers.

As far as tools, knipex style linear pliers are on my to-order list for pin installation. Amazon has them for cheap. That way you can squeeze in parts instead of trying to tap them in.

Lastly, I'd offer to get them a fun .22LR conversion or clone of their favorite video game or movie gun.

But hey, I've been on a .22 kick lately so my bias is showing.

 

[Coal Dragger]

Check out the SIONICS weapon systems “Gutless Wonder” lower.

Has the work done that is tough for a guy without specialized tools. Namely the receiver extension is installed and the end plate is staked properly into the castle nut, and it’s not an el-cheapo but a mil-spec 7075-T6 aluminum extension. The bolt catch, take down pins, and trigger guard are also installed. The lowers are also dimensionally correct.

Not sure if it’s in your budget but might be a good option if you don’t have all the tools you need to do correctly. The end plate/castle nut staking are commonly skipped by most who don’t know what they’re doing and can be a pain to do cleanly for some people.

 

[someguy2800]

Buying a complete lower kind of defeats the whole purpose that was stated

 

[Skylerbone]

4 of the 6 currently have at least 1 rimfire, several have 2 or more firearms. The last two will have their choice from my stash or I’ll simply spring for a few more. As an example:

14 year old has an 870, T/C Impact, and 10/22 TD.
12 year old has a SS 10/22
11 year old has a Ruger American 6.5 Creedmoor, Rascal, and will soon be taking my CZ 452.
9 year old has a Savage Cub.
That leaves 14 and 10 year old girls to outfit with one of my remaining 6 or 7 .22s

I bought the Mrs.-to-be a PSA upper and lower of her choosing and all of her girls tried to claim it. My daughter asked if it was for her, and my sons both liked it a lot. When I explained it was the same type of rifle as my RRA, then showed them a few parts before starting my own lower build, they were on board. Obviously some are more interested than others so I figured after seeing one of Gunny’s posts on non-black, Black Rifles, that giving them choices on parts to add a color scheme might help the sales pitch and it did.

That got the wheels turning which led to having at least 2 common calibers to take to the range as a family for some friendly competition. I think too that seeing their siblings’ rifles coming together will motivate anyone lagging behind to catch up. I realize this means playing RO/SO more than shooting my own, but the trade off will definitely be worth it. The process continues with earning ammo and may include 10/22 parts since there will likely be at least 3 in the mix, possibly 4.

And while shooting/hunting isn’t a first priority for most of them I have insisted as a minimum that they learn safety plus the basics. Because I had a dad who pushed too much, I strive to be flexible enough to (hopefully) keep things fun.

 

[LoonWulf]

No real advice, Just wanted to say good work and best of luck on your family adventures in the world of black (and other color) rifles.

My suggestions just from personal experience, and not with kids, would be to get all the fancy tools that make the job easier, also get a good vice.
You may want to invest in a "build" table with raised edges on all but the working side, and the vice mount a comfortable distance in from the edge.
I built one of those for my paintball gun projects by just attaching some siding to a plastic table, and running the vice mount screws thru to a board on underneath. I dont use it all the time for rifle stuff as ive got a fairly nice work bench in the shop now, but when i KNOW im going to be dropping things ill still break it out.
Most importantly work in good lighting.

 

[FL-NC]

Some common problems I have seen: selection of poor quality parts, improper disassembly. Problems with low-pro gas blocks leaking or not properly allined. Loose/unstaked gas keys, bent gas tubes (bent during installation). Problems installing buffer tubes and buffer detents. Backwards hammer springs. Stripped teeth on barrel nuts. Carbine buffer tube plates backwards or not staked. I know a guy who tends to launch/loose small springs and detents- now, he does these in the shower with the curtain closed and the drain blocked.

 

[Varminterror]

If I had 6 teen and pre-teen kids, I would probably need to separate myself from firearms - for both financial and mental health! Good luck, amigo! That’s a job!

As long as you really understand how the rifle mechanisms operate, and watch for proprietary components in the build sheet, it’s REALLY hard to mess up an AR. Forged uppers and lowers tend to eliminate issues for component fit, for example, not all billet lowers agree with all aftermarket, oversized bolt catches. It’s usually the billet lowers which have the most compatibility issues.

Watch yourself on handguards - most which use proprietary nuts come with the nut, some don’t. Many which come with the proprietary but also come with appropriate wrench, some don’t.

Budget about $250-400 per rifle for hydro dip or cerakote. 6 kids aren’t going to want matching aesthetics. Aero builders sets are nice in that regard, you can pick up handguard, upper, and lower all pre-coated - assuming they like the specific pattern/Camo/colour.

Personally, whenever I teach anyone to build an AR, I go through a very thorough fitting and tuning process. This would likely make sense to do with your kids. None of it is highly technical, just requires the knowledge to know to do it, then the time to complete each step. Takes about 8-10 hours then to instruct them through the process, rather than only taking about an hour and a half of simple assembly. It’s a great opportunity to take time to communicate together and bond over the experience, which I hope I’m not wrong in assuming is part of the point here.

 

[<*(((><]

Aero Precision M4E1 stripped receiver sets come with two changes that I appreciate over the andersons and PSA’s ive done in the past. The forward assist and bolt catch pins have been replaced with threaded Allen pins which make those two installations steps a breeze, even for a young-in.

There will still be some more difficult parts such as the spring detents on the takedown pins but other than that, that’s a cool idea for kids that grow up in a family that loves guns and uses them together.

 

[<*(((><]

Some tools that help make assembly easier are:

1. Geissele Reaction Rod, worth it's weight for torquing barrel's to receivers and muzzle devices, eliminates unnecessary torque on indexing pin
2. Pin punches
3. Delerin or Brass hammer
4. Blue tape to cover receiver areas from scratches on assemby

 

[Skylerbone]

Personally, whenever I teach anyone to build an AR, I go through a very thorough fitting and tuning process. This would likely make sense to do with your kids. None of it is highly technical, just requires the knowledge to know to do it, then the time to complete each step. Takes about 8-10 hours then to instruct them through the process, rather than only taking about an hour and a half of simple assembly. It’s a great opportunity to take time to communicate together and bond over the experience, which I hope I’m not wrong in assuming is part of the point here.

That is the lion’s share of what I hope we accomplish, succinctly put (thank you, Varminterror), with a fair bit of responsibility thrown in while earning, building, and afterward owning something as substantial as a firearm.

I do have a fair number of tools, from punches to hammers, even the smith’s best customer, a Dremel. I actually hand held the pins while starting and only went to the vise to set torque on the castle nut which I left unstaked for now JIC I opt for a different end plate with QD mount. BUT...I’m not expecting kids to follow my lead as they’ve not spent years tinkering or wrenching so again, I love the suggestions and the Reaction Rod looks to be on the buy list if kids are wanting to tackle upper as well.

Keep the suggestions coming and thank you to those who’ve already responded.

 

[Varminterror]

If you’re looking for a tool-list suggestion, Search “roll pin punch” with me as the posted by member, you’ll find my list of tools as I’ve posted it multiple times here. If you’re building 6 AR’s, undoubtedly spending over $2400 on parts, that ~$200 list of tools is a very cheap investment, of which you probably own MOST already, and having them at hand will drive easier and smoother assembly for your kids. Almost exclusively generic tools, save the barrel nut and castle nut wrenches, receiver blocks, and lapping tool.

The lapping tool is cheap, and it gives you a means to time your barrel nut to any torque you desire. For me, instilling that sense of quality in workmanship is well worth the $30. Guys thumb their noses at these lapping tools because it’s difficult to prove they increase precision or because they aren’t as precise as truing on a lathe (not needed, or needed but not good enough), but that is not the only reason to use the tool. Every rifle I build has the barrel nut timed to 45ft.lbs., because I lap my receiver mortise to time at that torque.

 

[AlexanderA]

Do the lower assembly inside a large Zip-lock bag, to catch the errant parts when those little coil springs go flying.

You need a set of roll pin punches.

If you have the original style pivoting trigger guard, be very careful with that roll pin. Make sure the "ear" is backed up on a solid surface, and file the end of the roll pin to a taper to make it easier to insert.

 

[Skylerbone]

@Varminterror, I hope you don’t mind, I’ve copied that list in below for everyone’s benefit, kids or no. My intention in the earlier post was not to make light of the build process; every step is critical to correct function and safety is always of paramount concern. Beyond your list being complete it is also a sobering reminder that there is no substitute for an correctly built, long lived, quality rifle.



What tools are required and what tools I actually touch when building an upper might be different lists.

A guy doing a duct tape and vice grips build can get away with a lot less, but when I'm building an upper, instead of just assembling a pile of parts, the list below represents what I use.

When I build an upper (aka, let's see if I can remember everything without actually putting one together to check myself):

• Upper clamshell block, lower magwell block, & bench vise to hold them
• Roll pin starters
• Roll pin punches
• Poly wrapped Maul (leatherworking tool, but makes sinking roll pins REALLY simple)
• Receiver tenon lapping tool & Compound
• Sheet shim stock, antiseize, & shears for barrel extension fitting
• Heat gun & freezer for fitting the barrel
• Length of hardwood dowel (forget dia) to tap barrels OUT of the upper
• Files, sandpaper, popsicle sticks, dowels, & lapping compound to dehorn the bolt & barrel extension, lapping ejector bore, & optimizing extractor
• Flat jaw, dehorned needle nosed pliers for holding small pins
• Drill bit, steel punch, & tapered reamer for gas block cross pins (for A2 style or other pin on gas blocks)
• Wheeler Fat wrench & Torx bits for clamp on gas blocks & scope rings
• Empty case with spent primer (plugs the chamber so I can blow into the muzzle to feel gas block alignment)
• Rod shank for aligning barrel nut
• Barrel nut spanner pin wrench & torque wrench (mil-spec always on hand, but have a few crow's feet and other proprietary spanners)
• Old picatinny ring base to clamp on the receiver and force the handguard rail into alignment while tightening
• Set of levels for aligning the handguard, front sight, muzzle brake, receiver, scope reticle, etc + plumb bob
• Scope ring lapping spindle
• Socket & adapter to mate my torque wrench to tighten ring bases or mounts
• Cut dummy cartridge & Marlin 1895 mainspring to lap the bolt lugs
• Thread chaser & bore alignment arbor
• Piloted 90* Face cutting reamer & pilots for indexing muzzle devices (cold blue/black as needed)
• Laser boresighter
• ETA: Power drill to run the lapping spindle and polishing dowels
• Castle nut wrench

Last edited: Sep 20, 2017
Varminterror, Sep 18, 2017Report
#4Like+ QuoteR

 

[Varminterror]

I don’t mind at all. Just didn’t want to post the long list and derail your thread with the inevitable barrage of “you don’t need to spend thousands of dollars on tools, I built my AR with vise grips and a wood block,” which typically follows my list on any forum.

I have NEVER told anyone they can’t build an AR for themself with less tools, nor that they should use the tools on my list (except the guys in my “build your own AR” classes - since they do use those tools). I provide the list as a reference, if anyone else would like to know what tools I feel make the job easier to do, and do better.

I built my first AR as an apprentice under an experienced smith, so I had the right tools. Some time after, I did build a few with the typical “first timer” gear, of channel lock pliers and 2x4’s... fast forward 20yrs and the list above is what resides in my AR Build toolbox. I can build an AR without all of that, but I can drive nails with a pipe wrench too - some things REQUIRE specific tools. Some things are just done easier, faster, better, safer and/or more precise with the right tools.

You might guess how I teach my son to build ANYTHING, including his AR.

 

[Skylerbone]

And using the proper tools for the job ought to be part of the lesson I teach as well. Noted and thank you again for one more valuable lesson that will pay to teach. Sometimes I feel like a guy stuck in a V8 commercial when knowledgeable people stop by with good sense.

 

[LoonWulf]

I built my AR with vise grips and a wood block,” which typically follows my list on any forum.

Ive done that...scratched the hell out of it too......

I agree, the right tools MAY not be necessary, but they make any job that much easier, screw ups less likely, and usually less eventful.

 

[Demi-human]

First, congratulations!
Second, nice job you're doing, Dad.
Third, a small magnet. Springs won't sproing with a magnet near, the detents are steel, too.

I can attest to the wonderful fit of an Aero MfourEone builder's set. I'm no AR guru, but I like everything about it.
Her children are getting a great Dad.

 

[someguy2800]

Just do like my dad did and yell at them till they cry, then call them a girl and say they’ll never amount to anything. They’ll turn out fine after the therapy. Just kidding, hope you guys have fun!

Oh and what’s with the late start?

 

[entropy]

They’ll turn out fine after the therapy.

Therapy?
You left out the beatings....

Skylerbone, your plan sounds great; I hope they turn out well. (the rifles and the kids.) I won't bother adding any building hints, Varminterror has it covered.

 

[GunnyUSMC]

The proper tools have been covered, but I will say the Geissele Reaction Rod is the best tool to have when building or working on uppers.
The only parts Isaac ever launched across the room were a detent and spring. I think that most people that have built an AR has launched on or two of them. Just buy an oops kit and you will be fine.
Here are a few parts worth getting.
Oden Works extended mag release. They come in different colors.


A charging handle will extended latch.
I like Strike Industries ARCH. It also comes in different colors.


If the kids are into colors like the red and black build my son did, then check out Guntec USA.

 

[RPZ]

I am not a builder, but if I were I would stay with complete uppers. It seems not all bolt carrier groups, specifically the bolt heads, are cut to the same specs. So mixing a barrel from one maker with the BCG of another can produce headspace issues.

Great idea investing in ARs for your pre-adult kids, and involving them in the process!

 

[someguy2800]

I am not a builder, but if I were I would stay with complete uppers. It seems not all bolt carrier groups, specifically the bolt heads, are cut to the same specs. So mixing a barrel from one maker with the BCG of another can produce headspace issues.

Great idea investing in ARs for your pre-adult kids, and involving them in the process!

Never had that problem with any of the dozen barrels I’ve installed

 

[someguy2800]

I did have one bolt once that was a bit long on headspace. Easily found and corrected.