Knifemaker question...

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JohnKSa

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Why does the smith in this video "reverse" the tip of his knife?



You can see that at 1:34 he shows the rough shape with a tip--then he heats it up and "reverses" the tip--basically turning what looks like the spine into the belly/edge of the blade, and vice versa.

I've seen him do this in many of his videos but I don't understand the purpose.
 
I have no idea about forging but I did watch it and it looked like he gave the spine a bit if a bend. Heck I have no idea. :D
 
I was all prepared to answer until I watched the video and saw that he never forges any taper into the blade.

I will guess that he is doing this because it is a san mai type of blade (outer layers are damascus and the core is a solid piece of steel) and that this has something to do with getting the core turned up to meet the point of the knife. Sometimes you do funny things with pattern welded blades that are in regards to manipulating the pattern as opposed to being necessary in making the knife. If he forges the back edge down towards the point he will thin the patterned steel out and the core steel should stay more true (full width), then he flips it over and "bends" the core back up towards the tip so that it is exposed for the whole cutting edge. If he simply started out by bending the core/cutting edge up, he would be left with a corner of patterned steel on top that would have to be cut off. It would be easier to visualize if the 2 steels weren't all the same color while forging.

In a normal knife, the forging process requires what we call a "pre-form". When you are forging the profile, you will turn the point down towards the cutting edge a predetermined amount. Then when you start to forge the bevels and taper into the blade, the point naturally turns back up. If you can get your hands on some play dough or modeling clay you can see how this works really easily. You have to always think about where the steel is going to go. If I hit it with a hammer I am displacing material, and it has to go somewhere. So as I thin the the cutting edge of the knife, it naturally has to get longer. If I don't start off with the tip pointed down, the blade will automatically take on a banana shape as the cutting edge gets longer than the spine. So I compensate by bending the blade the wrong direction from the start.
 
I appreciate the explanation. Unfortunately I can't quite visualize what's going on with the layering to see why it would make a difference, even with the explanation. I'm going to have to read over it a few more times and think about it for awhile.
 
Hopefully this sketch will help.

I guess I shouldn't have called it sain mai, as I the more I think about it I think this is 2 layers, with the weld going down the centerline of the blade, so that the spine is the pattern steel and the edge is normal steel.

So you start with a blank like the top of the pic, and the red is the tool steel and the blue is the pattern steel.

The next step down shows what would happen if you just tried to forge a point by putting the spine on the anvil and hitting the edge to push the corner in and up. The metal under the hammer moves more than the metal against the anvil and you are going to lose width in the tool steel. When you etch this the pattern is going to stay wide and the tool steel will get narrower as you approach the tip.

Instead, he does what is in the 3rd and 4th diagrams. You start off by hammering on the corner of the pattern steel (blue) which draws it out and pushes it in, but preserves the width of the tool steel.

Then when you flip the bar over and turn the point down, you are turning the tool steel and basically bending it around the pattern steel without changing its width. Now you have an even width border of tool steel all the way from the choil to the point.
 

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    forging pattern.jpg
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That did it! I see what you are talking about now. Thanks very much for the explanation and the drawing.

By the way, if you enjoy seeing someone make beautiful blades, that knifemaker has a number of videos and some of the resulting knives are really astounding. I really wish he sold his knives outside of the Ukraine...
 
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