Labradar captured & displayed each shot, but failed to save on SD card!

[MEHavey]

FWIW:
1. I always start a new series when starting a new string -- either same day or different day. Just disciplined habit.
2. I've never had LABRADAR not record on the SD card. Cannot figure out how that could happen in fact.
3. Once having learned how it likes to operate (velocity ranges, muzzle position, various flash-hider-vs-brake quirks, etc) very reliable 1st shot to last.
4. Greatest thing since sliced bread... subject to #3 above

 

[JimGnitecki]

Whenever I have a new session, I create a new series, and then shoot 5 shots of a known gun/factory ammo combo to insure the labradar is working, catching shots, aimed correctly, and displays correctly. Then I create a new series for my test loads.
While I agree it’s a risk to update your 1.2.7 version, you don’t know if they fixed something you are now discovering.

Did you know LabRadar has an app for devices either Apple or Android? It connects via Bluetooth and provides that backup of data to those devices. And you can use the app to control the labradar, adding series or arming/disarming, or changing settings. The notion to film the device and/or to copy to a spreadsheet can certainly be done, you may want to consider the app as an alternative.

The app sounds worthwhile! I will look into that! Thanks for drawing my attention to it.

Jim G

 

[JimGnitecki]

FWIW:
1. I always start a new series when starting a new string -- either same day or different day. Just disciplined habit.
2. I've never had LABRADAR not record on the SD card. Cannot figure out how that could happen in fact.
3. Once having learned how it likes to operate (velocity ranges, muzzle position, various flash-hider-vs-brake quirks, etc) very reliable 1st shot to last.
4. Greatest thing since sliced bread... subject to #3 above

Yes, I agree. The one thng I did "different" during that last unsuccessful session was that I paused after 5 shots to check the statistics on them. I am thinking that doing so, and then maybe something I was not even conscious of doing, may have somehow created the problem which I had never before experienced.

Jim G

 

[JimGnitecki]

Question for experienced Labradar users:
Let's say I start a brand news series.
I fire 5 shots.
I pause to review the statistics for the 5-shot string.
Now I want to return to shooting, adding more shots to this same series.
What is the PROPER way to return to a screen that enables me to continue shooting, adding shots to the series, so that I can after the shooting session upload the entire series data from the SD card to my computer?

Please reply very specifcally.

Jim G

 

[JimGnitecki]

I sent a message to Labradar on their "Contact" webpage:

Message

My Labraradr has up to my last shooting session been absolutely reliable. I have always ended up with a new series of data on my SD card to upload to my computer. No issues, but then at my last shooting session, I did something different:

I used the buttons to set up a new series (as usual).
I fired 5 shots (again, usual).
But then I paused to get the statistics on the 5 shots because this was a new powder load, so I pressed the "Armed" button twice.
The labradar displayed the statistics for the 5 shots.
Then, forgetting now exactly how I did so, but I think I simply pressed the top button on the left that looks like a monitor screen, to return to shooting
I fired 65 more shots.
I shut off the Labradar.
I took the Labradar home, removed the SD card like normal, and read it. BUT, it showed only PREVIOUS series data. The new series was simply not there.

I figure I must have somehow triggered a "closing" of the new series when I checked the statistics on the 5 shots, or when I pressed the topmost left button that looks like a monitor?

Or???

This really disappointed and scared me, as I lost all the data for the entire 70 shot ladder test.

My "About" screens show Firmware A = 1.2.7 and B = 1.0.0. I have never updated the firmware since I have never had a problem before.

What did I do wrong?

Labradar's (swift!) reply:

(My notes on their reply are in red font)
There a few things that are a little off, if you hit the monitor button in the review mode it should take you to your preferences. If you hit the armed button, it will take you back to your last shot screen to continue shooting (I did hit the Arm button to "ckock" the Labradar for further shooting, AFTER I got and read the displayed statistics and got out of the statistics display screen, and the Labradar DID DISPLAY the velocity for subsequent shots fired). Unless you accidently hit the trash can button while in the review screen there shouldn’t be a way for it to delete itself. I for sure did nOT touch the "Trash" button. I NEVER use that button as I never try to delete any shots from the session record)

I would turn the Labradar on with no SD Card in (I did so), make sure the Labradar didn’t record that series to the internal memory It did not), possible the SD card came unseeded from the SD card slot (could be possible apparently). If you do see your series of 70 shots on the internal memory you can review it on screen, but unfortunately you cannot export it to your PC. (No, no record of the shots in the Labradar's internal memory)

Best regards,

Tom Mouser
Independent Solutions LLC, Exclusive Distributor of Labradar

So, no new advice from Labradar. Note that although I mentioned my firmware status to them, they did NOT recommend updating the firmware, so apparently there have not been any software glitches to correct any serious bugs.

Jim G

 

[JimGnitecki]

Ok, I downloaded the app, and I asked Labradar for a set of instructions on how I could export data from the app to my computer. They recommended this video:



which is scary, because the video, made by an actual F-Class shooter user, makes clear that the app is NOT very user-friendly, AND it never even MENTIONS exporting the data to your computer in any way.

I'm going to see if I can find another video on the app via Googling myself . . .

Jim G

 

[JimGnitecki]

Well, this gets scarier and scarier. Iread the following thread about the Labradar app on another forum:

https://www.snipershide.com/shootin...-has-a-bug-in-the-shot-detail-solved.7109421/

I don't think I want to use the app, especially since there are no instructions on whether you even can export data from it to your computer, or not, or how to do it IF it is possible.

My Excel worksheet pre-printed paper from sounds like a more reliable way to back up the data.

Jim G

 

[MEHavey]

What is the PROPER way to return to a screen that enables me to continue shooting ?

You can simply activate the 'Radar ARM' button to orange, and shoot.
It will add additional data into the last (still active) shot file.

 

[JimGnitecki]

There's even crap like the following (from yet another forum) when you apparently try doing a firmware update:

"
Darn. It took me two hours to figure out how to update the firmware without a hangup.
As mentioned before, you should use a memory card that is 32 GB or less. Mine was 8 GB. Reformat the card to a FAT32 format which usually a default. Download the compressed file. Extract the files. Copy the two fwa and fwb files from the extracted folder and delete the original compressed folder and the extracted folder. Paste the two firmware files onto the card memory.
With Labradar powered off insert the card into the card slot of the Labradar. Do not use the external battery pack or USB connection for power. It seems you must use battery power, only. Install batteries and turn the unit on and leave it on maybe 30 seconds or more to be safe. The blue led light will flash a few times and the firmware should be installed.
You can verify by powering off and the boot screen should read "fwa" is the 1.2.7 version when you turn it back on.
Dang. I wasted half the morning using the USB power port not having it work.

Hope you folks have better luck and it installs easy.
"

Wow. The Labradar is still the best chronograph available to buy, but stuff like this really is scary. The official Labradar upgrade instructions on their website as of yesterday do NOT mention that you must use the internal battery for powering the unit when doing an upgrade, versus an external USB brick. BUT, the Labradar user manual tells you that the internal battery discharges quickly if used for actually operating the Labradar, so you should use an external USB power brick. But, it too never mentions that a firmware update will fail if you are using an external USB brick instead of the internal battery while upgrading. And, no, you cannot simply leave the internal battery inside the Labradar when using the external brick. Labradar tells you NOT to do so (without explaining why).

What a mess. Stuff like the above does not help the Labradar reputation.

Jim G

 

[JimGnitecki]

You can simply activate the 'Radar ARM' button to orange, and shoot.
It will add additional data into the last (still active) shot file.

Maybe. I DID re-arm the Labradar after looking at the 5 first shots. But remember how the user manual says that you cannot add more shots to a series that had already been finished? I am starting to think that my taking a look at the first 5 shots MIGHT have, due to some yet unreported bug, "closed" the series to further added shots, creating a situation where new shot velocities had nowhere to go: The existing series being erroneously closed, and no new series created (because I did not know the software had closed the existing series.

Hey, given all the stuff I found on Google, this MIGHT well be the case.

Jim G

 

[peels]

Maybe. I DID re-arm the Labradar after looking at the 5 first shots. But remember how the user manual says that you cannot add more shots to a series that had already been finished? I am starting to think that my taking a look at the first 5 shots MIGHT have, due to some yet unreported bug, "closed" the series to further added shots, creating a situation where new shot velocities had nowhere to go: The existing series being erroneously closed, and no new series created (because I did not know the software had closed the existing series.

Jim G

I don't think it's possible to "close" the string without starting a new one. And if you did start a new series, the 5 shots should have been recorded to the old series and the rest of the data should be in a new series.

What it sounds like perhaps is that the labradar "thinks" it was writing to the SD card, but for some reason, it was not, or the write failed. That would be the only reason that the data is not on the SD card and not in the internal memory.

 

[thump_rrr]

Check this out.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/...-Owners-and-Prospects-Get-in-Here-/42-533314/

 

[JimGnitecki]

Check this out.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/...-Owners-and-Prospects-Get-in-Here-/42-533314/

I DID! I read the entire thread! BUT, I run a Mac, not a PC, and he says his software won't work on a Mac because it references libraries external to his software that are found only on a PC and not on a Mac.

That is a GREAT piece of software for anyone with a Labradar who runs a PC! Anyone using it is getting a complex and detailed product for zero cost!

Jim G

 

[lordpaxman]

which is scary, because the video, made by an actual F-Class shooter user, makes clear that the app is NOT very user-friendly, AND it never even MENTIONS exporting the data to your computer in any way.

That looks like the older version of the app, the newer version does have an export feature. I believe one of the bug fixes in the new firmware was to do with Bluetooth connectivity, although I still get a dropped connection even at the latest levels. Still, I find it easier than inserting the CBLF in the data path.
I still use the SD card even if using the app. I only have exported the data from the app a few times. I find it easier to use the app to add strings, change the bullet grain weight, arm and disarm as I use a new string for every 5 rounds. That’s how I roll, but YMMV.

 

[JimGnitecki]

That looks like the older version of the app, the newer version does have an export feature. I believe one of the bug fixes in the new firmware was to do with Bluetooth connectivity, although I still get a dropped connection even at the latest levels. Still, I find it easier than inserting the CBLF in the data path.
I still use the SD card even if using the app. I only have exported the data from the app a few times. I find it easier to use the app to add strings, change the bullet grain weight, arm and disarm as I use a new string for every 5 rounds. That’s how I roll, but YMMV.

If the export function exists, then I will try the app, despite my concerns about it. Just not at my very next range session, as I have limited time available, and need to get the ladder test done properly and RELIABLY as my top priority so that I know what load to load for my next batch of ammunition for the range. With the 5-shot series, the validity of the statistics the system calculates (average, Std Dev, Max fps, min fps, and Extreme spread) are a lot less statistically valid, are they not, because the sample size of 5 is too small?

Jim G

 

[Blue68f100]

If you have a air soft gun ( BB gun) use it to test at your house before going to the range.

 

[JimGnitecki]

If you have a air soft gun ( BB gun) use it to test at your house before going to the range.

That's a really good suggestion! However, my air pistol is buried somewhere in my storage area (through lack of use AND an inter-provinival move since last use), and the time required to look for it and set up a temporary shooting range inside just isn't there today with everyhting my wife has schedule for us before I get to go to the range.

I'll need to check the muzzle velocity on the air pistol first before even looking for the pistol. I think it might be below the minimum that Labradar requires. I THINK that SIG replica air pistol shoots only in the 300s fps.

But if its muzzle velocity IS high enough to trigger the Labradar, that is a really good way for me to test the Labradar APP sometime in the next week or two, without having to do so outside in our still-wintry local weather AND without the 45x2 = 90 minutes of driving to and from the range. Thanks for suggesting it!

Jim G

 

[jmorris]

I used the buttons to set up a new series (as usual).
I fired 5 shots (again, usual).
But then I paused to get the statistics on the 5 shots because this was a new powder load, so I pressed the "Armed" button twice.
The labradar displayed the statistics for the 5 shots.
Then, forgetting now exactly how I did so, but I think I simply pressed the top button on the left that looks like a monitor screen, to return to shooting
I fired 65 more shots.
I shut off the Labradar.

I wouldn’t be scared of it, if it’s consistent in its operation in relation to user input. Just eliminate the steps you took in bold above, if it works correctly at that point quit doing that.

Not that others chronographs don’t also have their issues. I know from experience that they don’t work right with the sensors in direct sunlight, I avoid putting them into that position and we are both happy.

Doesn’t matter if the issue you had was because of you or the machine, you are smart enough to know what you did different and can avoid that going forward.

 

[JimGnitecki]

I wouldn’t be scared of it, if it’s consistent in its operation in relation to user input. Just eliminate the steps you took in bold above, if it works correctly at that point quit doing that.

Not that others chronographs don’t also have their issues. I know from experience that they don’t work right with the sensors in direct sunlight, I avoid putting them into that position and we are both happy.

Doesn’t matter if the issue you had was because of you or the machine, you are smart enough to know what you did different and can avoid that going forward.

Good analysis. I'll just do this time what I NORMALLY do, which has always worked. ("If it works, don't try to fix it")

Jim G

 

[jmorris]

I'll need to check the muzzle velocity on the air pistol first before even looking for the pistol. I think it might be below the minimum that Labradar requires. I THINK that SIG replica air pistol shoots only in the 300s fps.

I would think 300 fps would be good if this is correct.



https://mylabradar.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/UserManual-V1.2-Labradar-EN.pdf

Triggering it with a BB gun might be an issue though, they do sell a recoil trigger though.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1017357623

or you could build one yourself.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/DIY-Labradar-recoil-trigger-/42-523956/

Digging for that information it seems the LED’s are indicators on it’s current condition when one presses the buttons.



That part underlined makes me think they didn’t intend for one to view series information until they are done shooting.

 

[JimGnitecki]

I would think 300 fps would be good if this is correct.

View attachment 1140650

https://mylabradar.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/UserManual-V1.2-Labradar-EN.pdf

Triggering it with a BB gun might be an issue though, they do sell a recoil trigger though.
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1017357623

or you could build one yourself.

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/DIY-Labradar-recoil-trigger-/42-523956/

Digging for that information it seems the LED’s are indicators on it’s current condition when one presses the buttons.

View attachment 1140652

That part underlined makes me think they didn’t intend for one to view series information until they are done shooting.

Re-reading it, I think you are correct! It looks like the programmer did not anticipate that you might want to check interim results. PERHAPS this was because he/she was a statistician and would regard statistics derived from only a low number of shots as statistically weak or invalid. The use of the term "series" versus string might be for that reason.

Jim G

 

[JimGnitecki]

p.s. The recoil trigger is not importable into Canada. I know this because my very experienced F-Class match shooter friend tried to buy one and was told that it was not possible. He had to go an alternate route to get a recoil trigger.

(Another interesting Labradar tidbit)

Jim G

 

[lordpaxman]

If the export function exists, then I will try the app, despite my concerns about it. Just not at my very next range session, as I have limited time available, and need to get the ladder test done properly and RELIABLY as my top priority so that I know what load to load for my next batch of ammunition for the range. With the 5-shot series, the validity of the statistics the system calculates (average, Std Dev, Max fps, min fps, and Extreme spread) are a lot less statistically valid, are they not, because the sample size of 5 is too small?

Jim G

Just to be clear, while I use the app to control the LabRadar, I use the sd card for data transfers. And 5 shots isn’t statistically significant but does give me an idea of the loads capability. My spreadsheet can aggregate several 5 shot groups to give a bit better stat.
Depending on your usage, I wouldn’t think the data from a ladder test would be aggregated.

 

[JimGnitecki]

Just to be clear, while I use the app to control the LabRadar, I use the sd card for data transfers. And 5 shots isn’t statistically significant but does give me an idea of the loads capability. My spreadsheet can aggregate several 5 shot groups to give a bit better stat.
Depending on your usage, I wouldn’t think the data from a ladder test would be aggregated.

You are correct of course about not aggregating the data in a ladder test, BUT there is no way I am going to try to look at interim stats again! I'll use the Labradar as I have (successfully) in the past to record the velocity for each shot, all in one series so as to not foll with the buttons at ALL this time during the shooting session. I have the settings set to not time out the "armed" status for the full 10 minutes so that I will not need to touch any button on the machine. Just shoot one shot after another, pausing at the end of each 5-shot string to mark the group on the paper target (much quicker than 20 minutes!)

Jim G

 

[thump_rrr]

p.s. The recoil trigger is not importable into Canada. I know this because my very experienced F-Class match shooter friend tried to buy one and was told that it was not possible. He had to go an alternate route to get a recoil trigger.

(Another interesting Labradar tidbit)

Jim G

That's funny since the Lab Radar is made right here in Quebec.
There is a guy who sells them out of Ottawa if you're not handy with a soldering iron.
Looks like he is sold out right now.
https://www.taccanada-atc.com/products/rat-recoil-activated-trigger
I bought 12 of the sensors from China for $10.00
all you need to add is a stereo headphone cable.
Are you handy with a soldering iron?
I can send you a sensor free of charge?
Just PM me