Lack of Florida background checks didn't lead to violence.

[harrygunner]

Apparently, for a year, permit applicants in Florida didn't get background checks because the clerk couldn't log into the system.

http://www.tampabay.com/florida-pol...-checks-for-a-year-because-it-couldnt-log-in/

This snafu plus no apparent increase in "blood in the streets" should be added to the evidence against the idea that background checks provide greater public safety.

 

[Jim Watson]

Yup.
Other board seemed to take background checks as a normal thing.

 

[ontarget]

I believe that by and large, people that know they are prohibited and going to fail a BGC tend to source their guns without submitting to BGC anyway. Probably most if not all of the people that weren't actually checked due to the system problem would have passed anyway. JMO.

 

[harrygunner]

'ontarget' I agree that has a significant effect.

 

[Hokie_PhD]

Ontarget while you’re generally right, there are still a significant number of criminals and mentally ill who try. Not to long there were several aritilces in the press reporting about it. I’ve included a link below.

As for the ease of getting illegal guns, my ex-wife was a federal agent and she said that if needed she could get a gun cheaply in a matter of m8nutes. It’s frightening how in places like DC which make it so hard on law abiding people, criminals can buy and sell guns faster than we can fill out the paperwork. Yet those who claim to be against gun violence don’t offer any solutions on how to deal with that. Yet they harass those of us who follow the laws and use our guns for legal purposes (range shooting, competition, collecting, building ARs, etc)

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...eople-who-failed-background-checks/901017001/

 

[RecoilRob]

The lack of background checks wasn't for buying firearms....it was concealed permits which is a whole different deal. I lived in FL when they first began allowing CC to the 'masses' and had to prove 'competency' and do the whole background thing. After many years the stats showed that CC holders were just about the most Law Abiding Citizens in the State with very few committing ANY crime let alone one gun related. This is likely to still be true and the people willing to go through the process to get the CC are also the least likely to be worrisome to LE so just the fact that they applied for the license is a pretty good indication that they're Good Citizens and willing to be background checked knowing they'll pass.

 

[John_R]

DATE: June 9, 2018
TO: USF & NRA Member and Friends
FROM: Marion P. Hammer
USF Executive Director
NRA Past President


The media isn't getting it right and anti-gun Democrats don't want to get it right -- for some, it's all about attacking a candidate for political reasons. This issue is extremely important to all firearms owners and license holders. Truth and facts matter, so here is what really happened.

THE FACTS:

The Division of Licensing under the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services (DOACS) did, in fact, do background checks on applicants for licenses to carry concealed weapons or firearms.

Background checks were done through FCIC (Florida Criminal Information Computer system) and NCIC (National Criminal Information Computer system -- the national FBI fingerprint data base) and they also did a NICS check (National Instant Check System), which is the name-based background check system.

The NICS system is the same system used by retail firearms dealers to do background checks when a person buys a firearm.

ALL THREE BACKGROUND CHECKS WERE DONE.

During the time the employee failed to do her job, approximately 350,000 applicants for carry licenses were processed. Of those 350,000, 365 had a disqualifier based on the NICS background check.

The employee should have uploaded those 365 into the internal computer system to stop the processing of those applications. She did not. So those 365 applicants got their licenses anyhow.

Although they got their licenses to CARRY firearms, they still would not have been allowed to purchase a firearm from a firearms dealer because the same NICS background check would have been performed by a dealer and would have stopped them from purchasing a firearm.

A license to carry does not exempt a person from the background check required when you purchase a firearm. The license ONLY exempts a license holder from the 3-day waiting period.

When the Division discovered the problem, the employee was let go. The Division then ran new background checks on all 365 applicants who initially had NICS name-based disqualifiers. Of those 365, 74 were cleared and 291 still had disqualifiers, so their licenses to carry firearms were immediately suspended.

THOSE ARE THE FACTS. The facts don't fit narrative being pushed by the anti-gun political opponents of the Commissioner of Agriculture, Adam Putnam, who is a candidate for Governor.

 

[alsaqr]

Ignore the catchy headline: Read the entire article.

1. Criminal background checks were run.

2. Non-criminal checks were not.

3. From the link:

"Keller added that the NICS database is used for "non-criminal disqualifying offenses" and during this time, the state conducted criminal background checks using two other databases, the Florida Crime Information Center database and the National Crime Information Center database.

 

[P5 Guy]

Florida passing Constitutional carry would solve the login/password problem.
Hear that Adam?

 

[George P]

But then he'd lose the tax money. Tampa paper is leftist and is doing this as JohnR pointed out because Putnam is running for Governor. He is rural guy, not a transplant from up North, which makes him a gun-loving conservative Republican; not someone the antis (funded by a few fro out of state) want in office.

 

[Don Dayacetah]

Shhhh. We don't want to upset the thumb-sucking snowflakes or their representatives, too much. They
might get too upset and stressed, and go poopie in their sandbox. Tax dollars have to replace that sand, you know.

 

[harrygunner]

Sorry, got busy. Later, I read several posts on other sites calling for the head of the clerk for allowing undesirables to have "hidden guns". The article's title did overstate the problem.

But, I'm still of the opinion the one check should be for mental health.

Beyond that, those who apply and would pass will be as law abiding as we have historically been, without a check. Those who avoid the process and carry anyway are already doing that. To me, this argues for criminal checks having little effect.

I live in a "Constitutional Carry" state and when I compare murders by firearm per capita to California, I'm much safer here.

 

[George P]

But, I'm still of the opinion the one check should be for mental health.

Under WHOSE political regime? A Clinton/Obama/Schumer/Soros/Bloomberg type perhaps?

 

[Hunter86004]

"A license to carry does not exempt a person from the background check required when you purchase a firearm. The license ONLY exempts a license holder from the 3-day waiting period."

The first sentence in what I'm quoting should have a qualifier that that's the law in Florida if indeed it is. Line 21 on the 4473 clearly states that a person who has a valid state permit to carry is exempt from a NICS check.

 

[George P]

FL's CWL allows you to take a handgun home that day without a 3-day waiting period.

Fl does not use the national check; it uses its own system; not even LEO can access it. There is NO duty to inform

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Line 21 on the 4473 clearly states that a person who has a valid state permit to carry is exempt from a NICS check.

No.

4473 Question 21. No NICS check is required because the transferee/buyer has a valid carry permit from the state where the transfer is to take place, which qualifies as an exemption to NICS. (See Instructions for Question 21.)

Florida, Tennessee, and a few other states replaced state permit to purchase by adding a state instant check system for the 4473 dealer transfer (FCIC named after NCIC and TICS named after NICS respectively for Florida and Tennessee) so their carry pemit does not qualify to exempt one from a 4473 background check. (The checks are run by the state for state then federal records.) A state carry permit that requires a background check exempts one from a federal NICS check if there are no further state restrictions.

The Tennessee alternative would be that the application for permission to purchase (with potential 15 day waiting period) language is still in the law books. If TICS (state instant check system for local records) were removed, I suppose I could bypass a federal 4473 NICS background check with my Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit after hand carrying the application in triplicate to the county sheriff or chief of police for his signature that no wants or warrants applied to me. I do not want to go back to that myself. Many chiefs and sheriffs considered it a waste; cops told the Knoxville paper that maybe 1 of 5 criminals had a gun and 80% of gun criminals got their guns illegally anyway, so more gun control was not a priority.