Laser sights on defensive weapons...important?

[21bubba]

c/t laser grips don't"hang off or under a gun" they just work.

Before you say the military or law enforcement doesn't use lasers for sighting systems, you need to check your facts.

Equal talent level, iron sights vs. laser ? You lose.

 

[Deckard]

Since my HD gun is a Remington 870 I'll do without the laser.

 

[Mags]

Before you say the military or law enforcement doesn't use lasers for sighting systems, you need to check your facts.

Here are the facts I am active duty for over 8 years and have never been issued a handgun with a rail let alone a laser. Where are your facts? And I am not talking Spec Ops.

 

[Gun Slinger]

Gun Slinger, that is the exact point I was trying to make.

Happy to help.

Lasers tend to become "crutches" for most. Not saying that they don't have place in the use of handguns for defensive/offensive purposes, but those uses are rather limited ones.

 

[21bubba]

Real mags. Look up laser applications military on wikipedia,and then get back to us.

 

[Mags]

Wikipedia? I am in the real life military not the "internet military" jeez some guys believe whatever a web page tells em. You know wikipedia doesnt check their facts they go by user input. And at that note I'm done can't reason with some people especially those that don't believe in real life experiences.

 

[21bubba]

Gunslinger, If laser sights are "crutches" Then nite sights, flashlights,prescription glasses and using two hands to fire a "hand gun" must be crutches also.

 

[AKElroy]

I did not vote because I am needing another catagory; That is, it depends on the gun & who is carrying it. My wife carries an LCP, and they have useless sights. A laser on a weapon intended for close range point shooting definately benefits from a laser, particularly for a shooter that lacks the rounds downrange of many of us veterans. Yes, anyone carrying should shoot A LOT. That said, I suspect that as in my family it is simply not reality for many of our spouses & loved ones. I want my wife to carry, and she is simply not ever going to practice as often or with the same desire that I do & I need for her to have every advantage.

 

[21bubba]

Real mags That's what i thought, facts contrary to your own experience have to be bull****, right?

 

[Gun Slinger]

Gunslinger, If laser sights are "crutches" Then nite sights, flashlights,prescription glasses and using two hands to fire a "hand gun" must be crutches also.

bubba-

You can quote me "out of context" (partial quote) all you want, but that doesn't mean the conclusion that you've arrived at is an accurate or reasonable one.

You are also welcome to your uninformed opinion, but don't forget that it is all that it is.



Besides, it looks like you are just here for an argument. If so, go away.

 

[21bubba]

Not a argument, i prefer "spirited discussion".
You yourself are also welcome to your uninformed opinion.
Funny that you would use the word "accurate" in a discussion about sights

 

[Gun Slinger]

What I said above.

 

[21bubba]

And good nite to you sir.

 

[divemedic]

Gunslinger and Real Mags-

Being a LEO or in the military does not make you an expert, and dos not make others "uninformed." Simply saying that you were never issued laser does not mean a laser is useless. The military issues equipment or does not issue equipment based on a number of factors, an many of those factors have no commonality with the situations that a civilian will find himself in.

After all, a one on one engagement in my home is a different situation requiring different tactics from a platoon sized firefight in a Falluja alleyway. Not only that, but if we were to think that the military always issues the best equipment, then that must mean that the Beretta 92 is a better handgun than a 1911, that ball is better than hollowpoints, and I should trade my pickup in for a HMMWV.

 

[testosterone]

I only recently after 30 years of shooting shot a gun with a laser on it.

I guess its the old adage, you revert to whatever you do. If you shoot with your laser exclusively and intensively, it is a fantastic tool.

I think if you mix, shoot irons and lasers, but neither with great focus, when the "moment of truth" comes, I can easily see how you'd do neither, or your brain would take a turd trying to figure out whether to focus on the front sight or focus on the dot.

 

[possum]

i am in the militrary, the US Army Infantry, i am a squad leader, i have personally seen crimson trace lasers on m9's. also I am issued a peq-15 which has both visable and IR lasers.

 

[texas bulldog]

i certainly don't think they're a "must-have" item, but i would like to add one to my primary HD gun and maybe a carry gun or two. the crimson trace lasers are pretty slick, and i'll take every advantage i can in a gun fight. i just wish they would make a bobtail version of their 1911 grips.

 

[swagner89]

Anybody tried laser on a pistol grip shotgun?

 

[dom1104]

I think people should only vote if they own a pair of CTGs.

the laser in the crimson trace grip is SO much better than a glock rod laser, or anything clumsy that clips onto a rail


if I had to decide between any other laser brand, and no laser at all, I would save my money.

But I also think people shouldnt judge lasers by airsoft quality chinese ripoffs.

There are lasers, and then there are LASERS. it has to do with all kinds technical stuff i dont understand, but the CT laser is bright and orange and all the others are tiny and blah.

The CT is also rather large dot, which helps.

 

[Gun Slinger]

Gunslinger and Real Mags-

Being a LEO or in the military does not make you an expert, and dos not make others "uninformed."

I never said that I was an expert. I am however, experienced in their application and use as opposed to someone who has not been so trained and employed, therefore my opinion is the "more informed" of the two, like it or not.

Simply saying that you were never issued laser does not mean a laser is useless. The military issues equipment or does not issue equipment based on a number of factors, an many of those factors have no commonality with the situations that a civilian will find himself in.

I never said anything of the sort. You have no idea what equipment I was issued and trained upon as a condition of my employment in LE.

After all, a one on one engagement in my home is a different situation requiring different tactics from a platoon sized firefight in a Falluja alleyway. Not only that, but if we were to think that the military always issues the best equipment, then that must mean that the Beretta 92 is a better handgun than a 1911, that ball is better than hollowpoints, and I should trade my pickup in for a HMMWV.

Rarely (probably never) do homeowners encounter massive, heavily equipped opposing forces, but they are sometimes required to engage (trespassers/burglars) them at night.

As I said above: I am not a big fan of hanging lights (or other "tacti-cool" devices) off of a gun (pistol, shotgun or rifle) since they tend become "bullet magnets" if "light discipline" is not followed.

Many who use lasers also tend to develop some "really bad habits" and become too reliant on them. Iron sights never lose battery power.

I've never said that they (weapon mounted lasers) are completely unacceptable or without any legitimate use. To act and respond as if I have is simply disingenuous and an attempt to start an argument where none need occur.

 

[mljdeckard]

And 21 Bubba: YES. Those other items are extras that you must prepared to work without. Your glasses might be knocked off. You might not have two hands to draw a gun AND a flashlight. I always insist on night sights, but there could be weird lighting conditions which make one sight more visible than the other, and difficult to track in a fight. You must learn point shooting as well. You must assume that EVERY piece of your equipment and plan will fail.

 

[inSight-NEO]

While I can see their usefulness, Im hesitant to classify them as "needed" or "important." Im willing to bet that many individuals have successfully defended their homes prior to lasers being "en vogue."

Can they be an advantage? Certainly. But, are they necessary? I believe not.

It is entirely possible that one could become far too dependent upon a laser device vs. spending the necessary time becoming proficient with iron sights alone. Also, depending upon which laser device you use, you could either A: accidentally (or even purposefully) engage such a device when it may be inappropriate to do so or B: not be able to engage it at all (while under extreme stress) when needed.

Now, the crimson trace grips are a nice idea as they are easily engaged. But, I would think that this "usefulness" could contribute to unwarranted/accidental activation if one is not careful. Other devices, such as those activated by a switch (picatinny mounted lights), may be hard to activate during a highly stressful HD encounter (sounds impossible...but, you would probably be amazed at how such an encounter could render mountains out of molehills).

Also, if one trains with a laser on a regular basis, he/she may be more inclined to not consider their weapon "ready" until the laser has been activated...thus, eating up precious seconds during a violent HD encounter or again, run the risk of keeping the laser device "hot" when it may not be prudent to do so.

Again, I like the idea of a laser...I have one myself. But, after further consideration, I have personally chosen to go without. The laser device I save for training purposes only.

If I were to mount my laser device, I would consider it a "last resort" method at best, when it comes to HD. But, to be honest, I do sometimes struggle with whether or not to permanently implement a laser device...same goes for a weapon mounted light. For now though, its a gun, tritium sights and a handheld flashlight.

Of course, there is always the consideration of what a jury may/may not think about such a device.

 

[21bubba]

Look all i've meant is that they work for me. You know the whole over fifty vision thing.
The biggest problem with the haters is their refusal to aacknowledge the improvement that lasers can make in one's ability to improve shot placement.And isn't that the golden rule of a shooting situation?

 

[inSight-NEO]

Look all i've meant is that they work for me. You know the whole over fifty vision thing.
The biggest problem with the haters is their refusal to aacknowledge the improvement that lasers can make in one's ability to improve shot placement.

If it works for you...good deal. Again, I dont hate lasers and certainly understand their usefulness. Im merely saying that I do not consider them a "necessity" when it comes to HD.

Frankly, Im just worried about becoming too reliant upon them or again, what a jury might think about such a device.

 

[21bubba]

Why be worried about becoming too reliant on them?