Lead Hazards

C

Captain*kirk

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Joined
Oct 22, 2010
Messages
1,184
Location
Waukegan, IL
No, not the sort that the guy on the wrong end of your barrel has to deal with...LOL!
I'm speaking to the kind of hazard that we as reloaders have to deal with on a regular basis.
Specifically, lead from cleaning and tumbling.
I've been a dry tumbler since I got my first RCBS tumbler in the late '90s and have done a lot of it since, never really stopping to think (until lately) about the hazards imposed. Sure, using copper plated bullets has helped a bunch. In fact, I thought I had it covered pretty well until recently. Now I'm seeing a lot of guys on YT vids and such wearing latex gloves and respirators/masks admonishing us to only run or empty our tumblers outside, etc and citing the fact that our primers have lead deposits in them that can be absorbed through the skin or inhaled. I'm sure there are a lot of guys that have been reloading a lot longer or a lot more than I have probably going "Pfft!" right now...but there are quite a few here that have kids or grandkids around their reloading area that might want to consider this as well.
Personally, I never thought much about it before. But now that I have a wet tumbler, it seems common sense to de-prime and wet tumble fresh range brass in hot water with a squirt of dish soap to get rid of any lead deposits and rinsing/draining the brass before beginning your handling of the brass for sizing and case prep, and once you're done with all the monkey motion you can do another wet tumble with your Lemi Shine and pins, or dry media tumble without contaminating your dry tumbler media.
Any thoughts on this avenue from the peanut gallery? Am I making a mountain out of a mole hill?
 
Captain*kirk said:
Thanks for those links! Some very interesting reading there!
It seems that the lead styphnate from the primers is the #1 culprit, as I suspected. If you can ditch that before you start handling brass (wet tumbling) you can probably go a long way toward reducing lead exposure in the reloading room.
Click to expand...
If you use gloves your gtg in most cases.... yes I did it on purpose 🤣
 
The biggest risk for heavy metals (and most poisons at all) is ingestion. Breathing or eating the contaminant. So: basic hygiene will get you a long ways. All reloading in one area (e.g. don't don't tumble and dump tumbling somewhere else, keep it all one place). No touching /anything/ without shedding the gloves (or washing hands if no gloves), no food or drink (or smoking) in reloading room, ever.

By anything we mean the doorknob of the shop even. Learn the right way to remove gloves also to avoid cross-contamination, etc.

By ever we mean ever; assume the whole reloading room/area is contaminated not just while doing the work so don't also hang out and eat and watch TV in the reloading room because not reloading time.

And get a baseline level. Ask the doc for it. If elevated, check again after new procedures next year or whenever they say to check back depending how concerned they are.


Now casting is different. Do that with legit vent hoods, or outside, etc.
 
Captain*kirk said:
Now I'm seeing a lot of guys on YT vids and such wearing latex gloves and respirators/masks admonishing us to only run or empty our tumblers outside, etc and citing the fact that our primers have lead deposits in them that can be absorbed through the skin or inhaled.
Personally, I never thought much about it before. But now that I have a wet tumbler, it seems common sense to de-prime and wet tumble fresh range brass in hot water with a squirt of dish soap to get rid of any lead deposits and rinsing/draining the brass before beginning your handling of the brass for sizing and case prep, and once you're done with all the monkey motion you can do another wet tumble with your Lemi Shine and pins, or dry media tumble without contaminating your dry tumbler media.
Any thoughts on this avenue from the peanut gallery? Am I making a mountain out of a mole hill?
Click to expand...
I never switched to wet tumbling but did start to de-prime, lemi-shine prior to dry tumbling. Seemed to make a big difference with dust as I sifted the cases out of the walnut media. Then I added using dryer sheets eventually switching to pieces of paper towel with mineral spirits to clean the brass. Then just used paper towel pieces. Didn't notice the brass any cleaner but the media gradually got cleaner. Now there's no visible dust when handling the used media. It convinced me that the best practice is to deprime & wash prior to dry tumbling. I guess I could switch to wet tumbling but my dry tumbling method works for me.
 
Series70 said:
I never switched to wet tumbling but did start to de-prime, lemi-shine prior to dry tumbling. Seemed to make a big difference with dust as I sifted the cases out of the walnut media. Then I added using dryer sheets eventually switching to pieces of paper towel with mineral spirits to clean the brass. Then just used paper towel pieces. Didn't notice the brass any cleaner but the media gradually got cleaner. Now there's no visible dust when handling the used media. It convinced me that the best practice is to deprime & wash prior to dry tumbling. I guess I could switch to wet tumbling but my dry tumbling method works for me.
Click to expand...
Point is, if you de-prime and wash or wet tumble first, you won't be contaminating your dry tumbling media with lead at later stages. All you'll get is corn cob or walnut shell media dust...which is a PITA, but not really hazardous.
 
shoobe01 said:
Captain*kirk said:
It seems that the lead styphnate from the primers is the #1 culprit, as I suspected. If you can ditch that before you start handling brass (wet tumbling) you can probably go a long way toward reducing lead exposure in the reloading room.
Click to expand...
The biggest risk ... is ... Breathing ... the contaminant

Now casting is different. Do that with legit vent hoods, or outside, etc.
Click to expand...
Yes, root cause of my blood lead level increase was breathing in lead dust off indoor range floor with hurricane level ventilation fan system.

Just stopping shooting at indoor range and processing spent brass outdoors and handling lead bullets as usual lowered my blood lead level.

I dry tumbled back then but I sorted range brass and ran the tumbler outside under patio cover with plenty of fresh air. I deprimed into closed plastic water bottle and reloaded indoors while blood lead level fell.

Now retired, I shoot outdoors on BLM land and sort range brass outdoors. I do deprime using Lee Universal Depriming die indoors but collect spent primers in closed plastic water bottle then wet tumble. My blood lead level remains normal.
 
LiveLife said:
Yes, root cause of my blood lead level increase was breathing in lead dust off indoor range floor with hurricane level ventilation fan system.

Just stopping shooting at indoor range and processing spent brass outdoors and handling lead bullets as usual lowered my blood lead level.

I dry tumbled back then but I sorted range brass and ran the tumbler outside under patio cover with plenty of fresh air. I deprimed into closed plastic water bottle and reloaded indoors while blood lead level fell.

Now retired, I shoot outdoors on BLM land and sort range brass outdoors. I do deprime using Lee Universal Depriming die indoors but collect spent primers in closed plastic water bottle then wet tumble. My blood lead level remains normal.
Click to expand...
Your report is very encouraging! I shows it's quite possible to minimize lead exposure by being careful about your methods of handling shooting components and range activities. Thanks for the response!
 
Handling fired primers and their dust is the big risk. I had my levels checked once a year and it was never a concern according to my dr. I dry tumbled hundreds of thousands of rounds and was all in that mess of dust. Proper hygiene and not eating, drinking, or smoking while working is the best you can do. Wash your hands before touching anything or better, get some de-lead cloths or hand cleaner and use it immediately.

I grew up near a lake and fished all the time. We bit split shot sinkers more times than I could count as kids. My house had lead paint and we had lead pipes. I personally never worried about lead poisoning and still don’t, but in the last few years I have learned real facts about it from this forum and its members, and like Live Life linked to, that info needs to be shared and myths dispelled and then with real facts you decide how to go forward.
 
I have probably ingested more than a few ounces of #6 shot from bunny rabbits, quail, squirrels. grouse, and pheasant. Used my teeth as pliers for split shot sinkers. Gnawed on lead painted woodwork as a child. Hours of painting with lead based paints. Worked in the machine trades for decades using both white lead and red lead with my hands and arms coated up to my elbows. Melted hundreds of pounds of lead for casting bullets.

Haven't told my doctor for fear of an immediate pronouncement of my impending doom.
 
frogfurr said:
I have probably ingested more than a few ounces of #6 shot from bunny rabbits, quail, squirrels. grouse, and pheasant. Used my teeth as pliers for split shot sinkers. Gnawed on lead painted woodwork as a child. Hours of painting with lead based paints. Worked in the machine trades for decades using both white lead and red lead with my hands and arms coated up to my elbows. Melted hundreds of pounds of lead for casting bullets.

Haven't told my doctor for fear of an immediate pronouncement of my impending doom.
Click to expand...
Understood, but have you checked out the symptoms of high blood lead levels? If not, you might be surprised.
 
when i am reloading, i wear latex gloves, as i shoot lead cast bullets.

i only have indoor ranges here, so i have no other choice of where to shoot.

when i shoot at my club, i only sweep my area, with a small broom/dustpan, not the large brooms, and not the entire range.

my lead levels had gone up to about 37, then down to 23.3, then at my last test in November of '23, down to 17.6

of course too, i have lead removal soap at the house, and wash after i reload, even though i wear the latex gloves.

at the range, i cannot wear a mask, as then my eye glasses fog up...

i plan on switching to coated lead bullets my next order
 
My results were similar to LiveLife's results. I work with lead every single day of my life for 8-10 hours. I do less actual contact with the lead these days but for a lot of years I was touching it every day. My lead levels were never too high to worry about. They were higher than someone who never works with lead, but still within safe limits. That was until I started shooting a lot more and then going to matches. I am convinced that the biggest risk in shooting is the lead based primers. The lead particles get on everything and never ever get wiped off. Everything you touch at the range (especially indoor ranges) will be coated in that fine dust. Then add the fact that you're breathing in that wonderful smell and you're gonna get exposed to fine particulate lead dust. The good news is that we have a "natural pathic" PA here that offers IV therapy and one of the services they offer is Chelation. If you have a place where you are that offers IV therapy you might ask them if they offer chelation as an option. It is the most effective way to get heavy metals out of your blood and it was really cheap for me. I think I did it once a week for about two months and it was like $50-$70 per visit. Unfortunately covid hit right as I was finishing it up and I never got around to getting my levels checked after my last visit.

I'm starting another round of it this week though and I'll let you guys know how it goes. Will have to get a baseline test and then the final result.
 
Wow. If it isn't one thing, it's another. I really don't want to give my doc something else to look for. But, I guess I should get a base line. My doc does complete blood work every 6 months. I just looked at the most recent round. Is the lab test labeled "lead" or some other name? For the last 25 years I've shot exclusively outdoors. I usually shoot FMJs and rarely load or shoot only lead bullets, but I have quite a few different types from various manufacturers. My reloading equipment is in the garage, including the tumbler. Since it's usually hot, I use a fan. But, I've never used gloves to handle cases or a mask when tumbling or separating brass from media. Guess there is a use for those leftover COVID supplies after all!
 
A couple of thoughts;
*I don't eat, smoke (never did) or drink while in the reloading room. And on bathroom breaks during reloading and after I'm through I do wash my hands pretty well. However, I do stop on occasion to snap pix with my cell phone. Never thought about wiping the phone down.
* There is a cold air return duct that comes from my reload room straight into the furnace. Maybe a filter is in order?
* Never stopped to consider the primer pocket brush on my Trim Mate is probably a major source of lead styphnate (from primers). From now on I think I will have to leave the deprimed brass in the wet tumbler long enough to remove all those deposits first.
Things you don't think about...
 
emb said:
Wow. If it isn't one thing, it's another. I really don't want to give my doc something else to look for. But, I guess I should get a base line. My doc does complete blood work every 6 months. I just looked at the most recent round. Is the lab test labeled "lead" or some other name? For the last 25 years I've shot exclusively outdoors. I usually shoot FMJs and rarely load or shoot only lead bullets, but I have quite a few different types from various manufacturers. My reloading equipment is in the garage, including the tumbler. Since it's usually hot, I use a fan. But, I've never used gloves to handle cases or a mask when tumbling or separating brass from media. Guess there is a use for those leftover COVID supplies after all!
Click to expand...
blood testing for lead is specified...lead.

separate vial for that sample.

and the results for lead testing take longer than the rest of my blood tests.

YMMV
 
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