Lead Vs Copper. Why not?

[goings_51]

I got this idea from another thread, but I didn't want to hijack it...

Whether it be an indoor range, concearns over condors, or whatever, why NOT swith to copper? A lot of people will rush to defend lead as safe, but we haven't regretted not using it in paint anymore and lead paint is only dangerous if you lick it or sand it without a mask (something I wouldn't do to any paint). I know the cost for copper ammo is more right now, but I would imagine most of that is due to rarity rather than the cost of the metal itself. Why is .32 ACP more expensive than 9mm?..it doesn't sell well. However, if copper became the norm, it would get cheaper.

It looks like lead is running about $1.31/lb while copper is around $3.31.
http://www.metalprices.com/

Maybe a reloader can tell us how many 9mm bullets you can make with a pound of lead verses a pound of copper, but it really seams like the cost difference would be pretty minimal in the over all scheme of things.

Does copper pose any serious balistic disadvantages to lead? Is there a process to make copper softer like lead? If the cost difference were minimal, would you switch you plinking ammo? Hunting ammo? SD ammo?

 

[bailer]

It's not listed as a choice, but for me it's "hunting the Kaibab". Actually, if I get a good load worked up for my .264 I might well use the Barnes for anything I hunt with that rifle.

 

[RH822]

However, if copper became the norm, it would get cheaper.

The ammunition industry does not control the prices of raw metals. Simply switching lead bullets to copper will not make prices of copper drop. Copper is used very heavily in automotive and general construction and countless other industries. It's the high demand for copper that drives the price up. If you add to the demand, you add to the price.

RH

 

[Sistema1927]

The poll doesn't match your first post, so I have no clue how to answer it.

Last I checked, I couldn't cast my own bullets out of copper. Also, I wouldn't be able to use them for CAS. I think that I will stick to lead.

 

[DMK]

I don't like lead because lead fouling is a pain to remove. A little ammonia will clean up copper fouling.

 

[goings_51]

The ammunition industry does not control the prices of raw metals. Simply switching lead bullets to copper will not make prices of copper drop.

Just to clarify...I'm not saying the cost of copper would fall, but the cost of copper ammo would fall if it was more common.

 

[MD_Willington]

Why not copper washed zinc for plinking?

 

[Novus Collectus]

Solid copper handgun bullets are illegal to manufacture for the public and for an FFL to sell to anyone other than police.

(B) The term “armor piercing ammunition” means—
(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000921----000-.html

(7) for any person to manufacture or import armor piercing ammunition, except that this paragraph shall not apply to—
(A) the manufacture or importation of such ammunition for the use of the United States or any department or agency thereof or any State or any department, agency, or political subdivision thereof;
(B) the manufacture of such ammunition for the purpose of exportation; and
(C) any manufacture or importation for the purposes of testing or experimentation authorized by the Attorney General;

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

Edit: I am wrong.

 

[Bruce333]

That says "beryllium copper", not "solid copper", they are 2 different things.

 

[Guncrazy45]

Baader-Meinhoff...Second Time to Post This Tonight...

Solid copper handgun bullets are illegal to manufacture for the public and for an FFL to sell to anyone other than police.

If solid copper handgun bullets are illegal, how come they're available on the market?

MidwayUSA

Cheaper Than Dirt

 

[Novus Collectus]

That says "beryllium copper", not "solid copper", they are 2 different things.

Wow! I never noticed the missing comma before! My bad, big time.

 

[goings_51]

Wow. I just realized I buggered the poll up and I can't change it now. It was supposed to read "Would you switch to copper?" Anyways, if you read the post, you get the idea.

 

[Zoogster]

What is the limitation on solid copper handgun rounds? The only ones I see for sale are hollow point, expanding rounds. Is this for legal reasons or are manufacters choosing not to maximize penetration on thier own?

The wording of your poll is misleading. You seem to want to know if people would switch to copper, but your question asks if they would switch to lead, which most already use.

Copper supplies are more limited than lead, and according to some sources there is only another 50-60 years worth of copper at the rate of current consumption. If consumption practices increased due to unforseen market changes, like most ammo becoming copper, that would be reduced further.

Lead is more dense and has a much better ballistic coeffecient. It retains energy over distance better and is just plain cheaper. You may not consider lead at 1/3 the price significantly cheaper, but considering the majority of the weight of a cartridge is the bullet, it would probably double the cost of ammo, and since copper is more limited, it would not be changed by increased production.

 

[zinj]

Lead is more dense and has a much better ballistic coeffecient. It retains energy over distance better

Important point here! You cannot get the same weights in a projectile using less dense metals. This effects both trajectory and penetration. The classic example of this was the federal mandate that waterfowl could not be hunted with lead shot. Waterfowlers takes dropped considerably because the steel pellets could not penetrate at distance.

 

[357-8-times]

lead paint is only dangerous if you...sand it without a mask

For real?! Done that many times after plastering... Aw gee, too late now...

 

[wjustinen]

If the cost difference were minimal, would you switch to lead ammo?

The above is the poll question. I'm using lead now so I can't say I would switch to it.

Copper is great for jackets, but solid copper bullets? Why not plastic?

 

[230RN]

Copper v Lead v Tin

Copper bullets require a faster twist because they are less dense than lead.

The copper fouling could be reduced by using tin, either in the powder, or alloyed with the copper, or plated on the bullet.

This copper-tin alloy was the great breakthrough with "Lubaloy" bullets, AKA gilding metal bullet jacket alloy, which minimized copper fouling.

Plating it (tin) on the bullet surface itself "solders" the bullet to the brass case --which is OK unless something (like grease or oil) keeps the case neck from expanding and releasing the bullet on firing. (Although this might have a side benefit in that it will prevent bullet setback into the case on repeated chambering in semiautos --which is sometimes a problem.)

You can make just as many bullets of a given weight using a pound of either copper or lead.