Lee 2 or 6 cavity TL molds?

[TooManyToys]

I'm helping a new reloader looking at ordering some molds in common pistol calibers.
I am specifically interested in your opinions on choosing either 2 or 6 cavity LEE molds.
What are the Pros & cons of 2 vs.6 cavity?

Also, leaning toward LEE's TL ( tumble lube) molds as this eliminates the need for a lube/sizer.

These would be used with a Lee Precision Pro 4-20 bottom fill melting pot.

General target/plinking would be the use, nothing too fancy.

Any thoughts?

 

[hartcreek]

Using any brand mold does NOT eliminate using a sizer plus you also use the sizer for installing gas checks. I prefer the two cavity molds they require less heat to keep casting good bullets but either will work.

 

[rcmodel]

+1
I am not convinced I can't cast more bullets faster with a pair of two-cavity molds vs one six.

With two molds running, one can cool to solidify the sprue, while you are filling the other one.
Then you pick up the first one, cut the sprue, bump two bullets out, and fill it while the other one cools.

Besides that?
I'm getting too old and weak to wield a Six-Cavity long enough to get it up to operating temperature!

rc

 

[Schwing]

I have some 2 cavity and some 6 cavity molds. For me, the 2 cavity molds are so tedious that I hardly ever use them. For something like a 45-70, I think the 2 cavity molds are great. For something like 9mm though, it just seems to take too long to get any volume.

 

[greyling22]

6 cavity all the way and never look back.

 

[Duckdog]

You don't need to size them if they do not need a gas check. As long as they chamber, you're good to go. 6 cavity aluminums are actually pretty light to handle and really spit out the bullets.

For rifle, I use 1 or 2 cavity and for pistol, the 6 cavity are nicer. If you keep the mold temp good, you can really crank out the bullets with a 2 cavity mold, too.

 

[hartcreek]

Needing or not needing a gas check has nothing to do with the bullets not needing sizeing. Sizeing or not depends on what the actual size is that comes out of your molds compared to your specific bore......but if you have to gas check then you have to size onerwise the gas check wil not stay in place.

 

[TooManyToys]

Maybe I should have been more clear in the original question, Gas checked bullets are not being considered here.
Sorry.
The question is;
Choosing a 2 or 6 cavity mold, and LEE "TL" (tumble lube) style bullets (TL's are not available as gas checked bullets.)
According to LEE, bullets cast in their molds generally do not need to be resized, and can be loaded as cast.

 

[silicosys4]

I started casting with both 6 cavity and 2 cavity lee tumble lube molds.
What I found was the 6 cavity molds cast MUCH MUCH faster, especially if you use two molds as RC described. I have gotten something like 500 an hour with 2 lee 6 cavity molds....
you start to have problems with the lee 20lb pot keeping up.

2 6 cavity 200gr. .452's for the .45acp at roughly 12 bullets a minute is something like 5.5 ounces of lead a minute....
I was dropping a 3 lb ingot in every 8-9 minutes
Gotta keep that lee pot cranked to keep things flowing.

The 6 cavity molds are pretty easy on the wrists since they are aluminum.However, you MUST warm the 6 cavity mold and particularly the spruce plate fully before using all 6 cavities. If you try and cut all 6 with a cold spruce plate, that's a lot of cold lead to cut and you will quickly wear out the mold where the spruce plate cams against it.
Recommended practice is to start with one cavity, and increase a cavity as each one warms up.

The tumble lube design is a good one, but I found there was no guarantee that a bullet would fit as dropped. Some of my guns will shoot the tumble lube bullet as dropped, some require sizing.
My Colt 1991a1 will shoot .452 lee tumble lubed bullets unsized, but all my other .45's need them sized to chamber reliably.
My 28-2 will shoot the .358 lee tl bullets unsized, but my m10's need them sized or they are hard to load. My older colts won't even let them chamber unless they are sized.
Etc.....it varies.

Accuracy was pretty good, but in my experience, was not as good as traditional lube groove bullets cast from lyman molds and tumble lubed with liquid alox.

but Also, the tumble lube design unsized requires cases to be excessively belled to avoid sizing the bullets by seating. I personally don't like overworking brass, so I just size everything except from a few lyman molds that drop at exactly what I need.
Luckily the lee push through sizing dies are cheap, and work great for tumble lubing.....and include a container of lube with each die. You can find lee sizing dies on eBay for under $25 shipped, I've got five or six and am still working on the liquid alox they included.
Also, you can tumble lube any cast bullet. I have lyman pistol molds that are designed for traditional lube in the grooves, but work great with no leading, tumble lubed with liquid alox. This includes .44 magnum Keith style moving up to 1350 fps.

All in all, you can cast, lube, and size a heck of a lot of bullets for not much money with the lee pot, lee molds and sizing dies, then tumble lube them for more than adequate performance.
I have since moved to using mostly lyman 4 cavity dies because of longevity issues I have had with the lee molds.

 

[evan price]

The NEW 2-cavity uses the same mold alignment pins as the 6-cavity always had. That was the weakness of the 2-cavity molds, that rod-and-trough alignment system. With the pin-hole system, they are much more usable and I'd not have a problem with them anymore.

Honestly, I find better service from NON-tumble lube molds, and then tumble lubing anyway. The thin grooves of the TL design don't do that much to carry lube IMHO.

 

[USSR]

Personally, I don't do the tumble lube thing. Makes more sense to put a lot of lube where it belongs (in a lube groove), than to put a little bit of lube all over a boolit, which includes places where it does nothing. Lubrisizer all the way.

Don

 

[rsrocket1]

Go with the 6 cavity non-TL design. You can TL traditional lube grooved bullets, but you can't easily use TL bullets in a lube sizer if you decide to eventually go that way. Look into 45/45/10 as a tumble lube, it's great. I have 6 cavity molds in 9/38/40/45 and doubt that you can cast anywhere close to the same rate of quality bullets with single or double cavity molds. Six seconds to fill, 8 seconds to cool, 3 seconds to drop, then fill again. No time needed to grab a second or third mold. A rate of 500 bullets in an hour is very easy so a casual 2 hour casting session will yield a lot of bullets.



One coating of 45/45/10, no sizing. Just load them to the edge of the truncated cone and shoot. You need to measure the bullets yourself, but my bullets all drop 1-1.5 mils above the spec'ed diameter (for example 0.402" to 0.4025" for the 401-175-TC) and I've found that loading to the edge of the cone prevents hangups at the throat from the vertical part of the bullet. Here's a 45ACP bullet from my first 6 cav mold. I chose the TL design, but all others have been traditional groove.

A very mild taper crimp to bring the flare back to vertical or just inside vertical is all that is needed to ensure smooth chambering.

This allows a perfect plunk into the barrel every time. I do plunk test every loaded round after loading and before boxing it up. I figure the extra time I save throughout the casting and loading process can easily be used in the extra 2 seconds it takes to test a loaded round.

 

[earplug]

Bullet design?

My 45 ACP firearms load/feed better with Lyman designed bullets then they do with Lee bullets. 200 grain SWC and 228 LRN.
I have had good results using none tumble lube designs with alox and lee sizers.

 

[Bibbyman]

I've molded with Lee, Lyman and RCBS single and double molds for many years. We got in CAS last year so this winter I bought 3 Lee 6 cavity molds. Boy! They shuck out the bullets fast! I keep the Lee 20 lb pot on high and keep adding lead about every 20 pours. Bullet weights are 115 for 38, 200 for 44 and 45. All are grease groove design - not tumble lube.

The problem I found is sizing and lube so many bullets with my Lyman 450 sizer. I'm trying to use them unsized. But I made a run of 45s that I let my attention laps and had some cast a little large. So I took the return core out of the Lyman 450 and just pushed them through.

I'm trying the 45/45/10 lube method but found I could just leave out the mineral spirits and have been heating a small dolop of Lee alox and dolop of Johnsons paste wax until it's oil then pour over bullets in plastic bag. Roll bag from hand to hand and spread on butcher paper.

Some CAS guys are using a mold designed for 9mm to cast bullets to tumble lube and use in 38. Lee has just came out with a new 90 grain 9mm 6 cavity mold that looks like it could work well for mouse phart CAS shooting.

 

[41 Mag]

According to LEE, bullets cast in their molds generally do not need to be resized, and can be loaded as cast.

This is if your temp is correct for the alloy your pouring, and the alloy is the same as what they used. That said your temps can result in the bullets being bigger just as easily as the alloy your using can.

It is only around $20 for the sizing kit. It can be used with any standard press and is just a push through type. Simple as pie.

As for the molds, well that is a choice you will have to make. Myself I started out with the 6 cavity 452-300RF and after using it for 5-6 months pouring them through a 2 cavity mold was like watching paint dry.

I now have close to 2 dozen or so different molds. Almost all of them are 4 cavity or more. I just figure if I am going to sit down and pour, I want production and with those I get it. I do have and still use a few of the 2 cavity ones, but they are only for limited use bullets, not the ones I load up and shoot all the time.

If I were to suggest two things that are well worth the money, it would be a lead thermometer, and to build yourself a PID controller for your pot. Those will let you monitor the temps your pouring at and help keep your bullets more consistent in weight and diameter. I know there are plenty who never used a thermometer and have cast perfect bullets for decades without one. Me personally I like my bullets to be the same from start to finish if I can make them so, and using a thermometer first and then the PID has helped considerably. Most times a batch varies only within a few grains. Hard to keep them that close with the temp going up and down in the pot.

 

[NuJudge]

How big is your furnace? A 20 pound Lee furnace gets sucked dry by a 6 cavity 200gr Lee .45 SWC mold in very little time. If I am going to cast long strings, I use a 10 pound furnace as a melter, running it at maximum, and have ingots preheating on top of the 20 pounder I am casting from and the 10 pounder I am melting from.

 

[TooManyToys]

Thanks to all,.. great information is being posted,.. Keep it coming!

41 MAG,
What temp to you like to keep your pot at?

----------------

 

[41 Mag]

41 MAG,
What temp to you like to keep your pot at?

Well generally the smaller the bullet the higher the temp to a point, the bigger the bullets the lower the temp, but this also depends on if it is a 2 cavity or 4-6 cavity as well.

The 45 cal aluminum molds in 2 cavity run just fine at around 675 degrees, where the same 2 cavity in a .358 will need around 720 to stay up to temp.

For a brass it might be around 690 - 720 for a 2-4 cavity solid, but the HP will need between 730 and 750'ish, to keep the mold and hp pins up to a good casting temp.

If I am using a new to me mold, I usually start off around 680-700 and will work with that until I see how things are going. Sometimes I find I need to raise it up a bit to keep things going sometimes cool it down. Each mold is a critter unto it's self.

Just jot down where your at when things come together and the next time your using that mold you have a good idea of where things need to be to pour up good bullets. If you change alloys you might have to run hotter or cooler anyway. the notes help out later on after tow or three months of shooting up what you already poured up and come back to pour some more.

 

[gbw]

I have Lyman and RCBS iron 2 & 4 cavity versions and cast many thousands of good bullets with them - 9mm, .38, and .45.

I haven't touched an iron mold since I tried the Lee 6 bangers. They are MUCH faster, and easier on the hands and wrists. No more whacking on sprue plates! Bullets are every bit as good. If they start to overheat just touch them briefly on a wet sponge.

You do have to be more careful as they are made of aluminum not iron, but with a little care they last indefinitely. Read follow simple instructions.

As an extra benefit Lee molds cost about half what the iron molds cost, and Lee will overhaul them to new condition for 50% of the new mold cost should they ever need it. Great company.

 

[TooManyToys]

Thanks once again to everyone for the good info your contributing!!

 

[GP100man]

NOE 5 banger !!!



For a new caliber or design by Lee a 2 holer so if it does`nt work I`m not out much , for 1s from Lee that work 6banger all the way !!

 

[USSR]

NOE 5 banger !!!

Yep, all my moulds now come from either Mihec or NOE.

Don

 

[TooManyToys]

Nice picture & info rsrocket1.

GP100 man, Those are beautiful castings.
What temperature do you pour your lead at?

 

[StrawHat]

I use NOE and other custom molds when the bullet profile I need is not available elsewhere, for example, I have a NOE 2 cavity mold that casta 450 grain hollow base 50 caliber bullet for my 50-70.

For common profiles, I have Lee 2 (old style) and 6 cavity molds. They drop good bullets from my alloy, when I pay attention to the process. If the profile you want is available in the 6 cavity, go for it, if you need a lot of bullets.

When I shot PPC I was able to supply myself in cast WCs by using a pair of 2 cavity Lee molds. (The 6 cavity molds were not available.)