Lee Classic 4 hole Turret - the plastic index coupler (aka the "weak link")

[jad0110]

The lee 4-hole turret press has an auto index feature that uses a black plastic coupler on the top of the ram containing a little plastic square "thingie" that engages the index rod, which connects to the 4 hole turret itself. The photos below explain it, for those of you who may not know what I'm referring to.

Anyway, I am already on my 2nd square plastic thingie. I had several thousand rounds on my first. It slowly wore out to the point where I had to assist the auto index manually by rotating the turret an 1/8" or so to it's locking point by hand. Eventually, it stopped auto indexing altogether and became a fairly large single-stage press.

So I dropped in a new "square plastic thingie" and after only 450 rounds reloaded, it is shot. In fact, this one first started showing signs of wearing out in the low 300 round count range. And the coupler itself seems to have stripped out the screw holding it together, which occured when the the plastic thingie inside the coupler shifted and jammed up the works.

I am not rough with the press, and I always raise and lower the ram fully each time.

I love the press overall, but this "weak link" is annoying. It really irritating the snot out of me today, as I was on a roll and having a good time until it stopped indexing fully. I know, they are pretty cheap to replace, certainly cheaper than buying a different press, but it is annoying. Worst case scenario I order 100 of them and just replace it every few hundred rounds.

I would sure appreciate any tips from those of you who have worn a few of these plastic thingies out.

Better yet, does anyone know of a more permanent solution out there (beside a new press)? I can't help but thing that if that coupler unit were made out of steel, it would probably last longer. Overall, I really like the design as it nicely bridges the gap between a single stage press and the bulkier, more complex progressive presses. But the plastic indexing parts seem like an afterthought.

Again, I'd really appreciate your help.

Here are some pics of the offending parts:





















Info and pics added on 11/23:


Okay, based on a request from jfh, here are some additional pictures of the inside of the auto index clamp. Other than the stripped screw (which I think jfh's suggestion will solve), it appears undamaged:









Question...

I know the square ratchet is installed in the auto index clamp flange facing down. However, exactly how does the ratchet orient inside the clamp. I've got a few pictures below, if someone can tell me which way is the right way, I'd appreciate it. If it doesn't matter, please say so.


One way (which results in the flat side of the square ratchet facing the ram):





And another (which results in the corner/pointed in of the square ratchet facing the ram):

 

[jfh]

There is NOT a "permanent solution;" this part is a fail safe.

(My turret is slightly different--it's the updated older turret. The issues are the same, however.) Lee has intentionally chosen this part of the press to fail in the event of a forced stroke. "Upgrading it" to a steel part would just result in another part failing, I suspect. At any rate, here's what I have found in the course of loading some 20,000 plus rounds on my turret in the past two years:

1. The square ratchet needs to be installed with the 'flange' side down on my press--and I am pretty sure that's true on yours. Yes, it can fit the other way--but it will wear / damage the auto index clamp if installed flange side up. So, check for proper orientation when you install a new one.

2. The 'wood screw' thread on the auto index clamp can be replaced with a 6-32 machine screw, washers, and a locknut. I stripped mine out by overtightening it. I ordered out a spare--but while waiting for it, I simply replaced the factory screw with a 6-32 Machine screw, some washers, and a locknut. Ive never installed the new clamp.

(A side issue on the old turret is the "drift" of the lower end of the index rod caused by the rotational forces of the operations, with a resultant twist of the clamp. I simply live with that; it has no apparent bearing on the quality of the handgun ammo I load. I dont know if the same issue exists with the Classic Turret; from your pictures, it appears the problem may not exist.)

3. Wear / damage to the square ratchet comes from turning the rod/turret when the ram is down; make sure you raise the ram above the index rod twist to avoid this problem.

Since you got about 5,000 cartridges out of the initial ratchet--a typical life, it appears--my guess is that you have been operating the press properly and mostly likely damaged the ratchet (I think I see slight bowing in it in your pictures) and / or the clamp when you installed the new one--and installed it, possibly, upside-down. It doesn't take much to damage them--is that a picture of your 2nd / newly-installed square ratchet?

A related issue on more-rapid ratchet wear is a turret setup that has not been "optimized" for minimal drag. That is, did you use the indexer rod nut to set the turret a hair "high" by twisting the rod nut counterclockwise when tweaking the turret travel? I did that adjustment, and I also routinely oil the bearing points on the press head and turret for smoother operation.

The fail-safe feature of the square ratchet and clamp is probably the most common "issue" with the Lee Turret Presses. The problem goes away, I think, once you know and apply these hints...hope this helps.

Jim H.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I destroyed the first 2 within a few days because I was doing things wrong. You can't turn the turret when the ratchet is engaged. I can see from the picture it's not "worn out" but it is damaged. Jim above gave a very good explanation, that should help a lot. BTW, I've reloaded well over 5000 rounds on the current ratchet so it can and will last a long time if not damaged by the user.

 

[rondog]

I have a Classic Cast Turret Press too, and have had some problems with those thingies. And to my recollection, there's no reference to that stupid thing in the directions that came with the press. I didn't know what it was, and almost threw away the spare.

I like my press, after I got it tweaked and running good, but their instructions flat-out suck. If you already know something about reloading, you can figure it out. But for a total newbie to reloading, I think the Lee instructions were very vague and confusing. That plastic primer feed thing was just maddening, I refuse to use it now.

 

[jfh]

rondog: if you do a search in this forum (see the search tab, or use Google to search this site) on terms like "Safety Prime," you'll probably find other discussions. I got mine sorted out, and it now works fine 99.9% of the time.

Jim H.

 

[qajaq59]

I can't imagine a press lasting a whole lot of years if it depends on a tiny piece of plastic in order to run properly. If I had one I think I would stock up on them for the years to come.

 

[jfh]

Well, FWIW, my standard turret is about twenty years old and has loaded perhaps 30-40,000 rounds total. I do have 'a few' ratchets on hand, but I do not think Lee will quit supplying them.


Jim H.

 

[jad0110]

is that a picture of your 2nd / newly-installed square ratchet?

Yes.

Lee has intentionally chosen this part of the press to fail in the event of a forced stroke. "Upgrading it" to a steel part would just result in another part failing, I suspect.

I hadn't thought of that, but I think you are correct. Makes sense.

1. The square ratchet needs to be installed with the 'flange' side down on my press--and I am pretty sure that's true on yours. Yes, it can fit the other way--but it will wear / damage the auto index clamp if installed flange side up. So, check for proper orientation when you install a new one.

Crap. Ya know, that just might be the problem. I'll be sure the flange faces down when I install the new one.

Some more questions, if you don't mind ...

When you install the square ratchet (flange down), do you just put it on the index portion of the index rod, then tighten the index clamp around it?

Also, I've also noticed two different positions I can locate the square ratchet into inside the clamp (with either the flat side of the square ratchet parrellel to the ram, or at a .45 degree angle). Does it matter which way it is installed?

And I guess the square ratchet slides up and down vertically inside the index clamp during operation, so does it really matter where it is installed vertically?

This does proove one thing:

And to my recollection, there's no reference to that stupid thing in the directions that came with the press. I didn't know what it was, and almost threw away the spare.

I like my press, after I got it tweaked and running good, but their instructions flat-out suck.

I'm sure Lee has been told that numerous times, but it doesn't hurt to tell them again (in a high road manner, of course).

That is, did you use the indexer rod nut to set the turret a hair "high" by twisting the rod nut counterclockwise when tweaking the turret travel?

No, I did not do this. A great tip though, I will set mine up in this manner when my new square ratchet comes, and I will of course "reset" my dies accordingly. I do keep the bearings and all other pivoting points well lubricated with either break-free CLP, or more often, a light coating of motor oil or ATF.

The 'wood screw' thread on the auto index clamp can be replaced with a 6-32 machine screw, washers, and a locknut.

Thank you for this tip as well. I'll probably order a spare anyway, along with a dozen square ratchets.

If I can get 5,000 rounds out of a square ratchet, I'll be satisfied. As I said, I really like the press otherwise.

Thank you again for all your help, I'll be bookmarking this thread!

Really, it ought to be a sticky! It is such a gold mine of useful info.

 

[jad0110]

That plastic primer feed thing was just maddening, I refuse to use it now

Like jfh stated in another thread, often crud begins to build up in the works and it is necessary to take it apart and clean it. Mine work perfectly after cleaning.

 

[RustyFN]

I have had my classic turret for over three years and have loaded around 10,000 rounds. I am still on the original ratchet. I don't know if it makes a difference but instead of oiling the indexing rod like most people like to do I wipe mine down to keep it clean and dry. I agree Lee could do a lot better job with their directions.

 

[jfh]

jad0110: point-by-point-from post 8:

1. OK, that's a damaged ratchet, but possibly usable.

2. Install the ratchet in the center, and "on the 45", while in your hands--e.g., remove the clamp. I do the installation, close the clamp and reinstall it and tighten it to the ram. Then I raise the ram and drop the index rod in, letting it 'twist in' with little urging. Keeping the ram above indexing twists on the rod, I then drop a turret in place, wiggling, etc. Then I drop the ram / raise the handle.

You might have damaged the clamp internally--but I doubt it. Try the pictured ratchet, installed correctly. You probably can get a bit of use out of it.

3. AFAICT, if the ratchet is not installed in "the center", it will jam. I don't remember for sure--it's been a while since I sorted this out.

4. I use CLP, too.

Jim H.

 

[flashhole]

"Thank you again for all your help, I'll be bookmarking this thread!"

Yes, I'll be bookmarking it as well. I don't use the auto-indexing feature all that much but this is really good info if you own one of these presses.

jfh - Thanks for taking the time to post from me too.

 

[rbernie]

All good advice here - thanks. When my press stopped indexing properly, I just chucked the auto-index rod and rotate the turret by hand. For making handgun ammo (which doesn't require a full stroke since I decap and hand prime in separate steps), it's actually faster to just rotate the turret by hand than to run the ram completely up and down.

 

[jfh]

"...I just chucked the auto-index rod and rotate the turret by hand. "​

Well, yeah. But you guys that build handgun cartridges this way are...are...well, just weird!

Me, I'd rather keep doing those long strokes and aggravating my sore shoulder.

Jim H.

 

[jad0110]

OK, that's a damaged ratchet, but possibly usable.

Yeah, I boogered it up pretty good, didn't I? That takes special talent!

Me, I'd rather keep doing those long strokes and aggravating my sore shoulder.

Yeah, that's me too. My shoulder and lower back are sore this morning, and I only did 450 rounds. DOH!

 

[benzuncle]

I don't know if it makes a difference but instead of oiling the indexing rod like most people like to do I wipe mine down to keep it clean and dry.

I called LEE to ask them about 357SIG dies. During our conversation I mentioned the ratchet square and the index rod. The LEE Rep said it works best when no oil is applied.

I purchased my LEE Classic Turret press just shy of 2 years ago. I tore up my first ratchet square after about 4000 rounds learning what not to do, like turning the 4-hole turret without raising the ratchet off the twisted part of the index rod. Since I quit doing that I've built many rounds on the 2nd ratchet square with zero problems. I can't help but wonder if that isn't why they include the second on in the box. I've purchased a couple since then, mainly to get my Midway order over the minium limit.

I agree that the LEE instructions leave a lot to be desired, but have no qualms about the LCT. I did a lot of lurking on this forum and a couple others before making my decision to purchase the LCT. 3 calibers and many, many rounds later I can say that the answers I've needed have been right here on the forum. What little customer service I've needed from LEE has been spot on. I have no regrets with my choice and haven't gotten the urge to get a different loader.

 

[RustyFN]

The LEE Rep said it works best when no oil is applied.

Thanks for the info.

 

[twice barrel]

Well I managed to load a total of 13 rounds before I damaged mine.

But it was my fault. I decided to clean the press up completely and re-oil everything with a light coat of synthetic oil. Its an experiment to see if it will not gum up as fast as traditional oil since I keep my loading stuff in the garage.

I slightly forced the turret backwards while reinstalling it with the index rod engaged. I'll know better in the future but will also get a few replacements.

I have to wonder what this little part is called in industry. (Surely its not an item unique to Lee presses.) Would think a better quality delrin would permit longer life. Also doubt its so much of a safety feature and more of a low friction glide-on-metal quality.

Gotta admit the press is a clever design,

TB

 

[TrekJeff]

Thanks for the insight. If this is the only problem with this press and comparing it's cost to comparable presses...this press just made my Christmas List

 

[RandyP]

It is a 'wear' item by design. If memory serves, they even included a spare in my Classic Turret kit, though I've not needed to use it. Though it is also readily available and very affordable.

 

[jfh]

jad0110 just updated the pictures in the opening post. They're excellent illustrations of the use of the square ratchet installation in the auto index clamp.

Jim H.

 

[iblong]

I went the same route as rbernie! I decap and prime in seperate steps.

 

[gspn]

I'm glad I saw this thread...I too have a spare "square thingy" that came with no instructions. I had no idea what it was or where it went until this thread. Lee really has some crappy instructions that come with their gear. Good gear...terrible instructions.

 

[jad0110]

jad0110 just updated the pictures in the opening post. They're excellen illustrations of the use of the square ratchet installation in the auto index clamp

.

Thank you Jim.

Of the last 3 pictures (the 1st of the 3, then the final 2), which one is the correct way to install the square ratchet (1 of 3, with the pointed end down OR 2 and 3 of 3, with the flat part parrellel to the table) - or does it matter at all?

Good gear...terrible instructions.

Amen to that. I will say that the help videos on their website were quite good though.

Maybe I'll email Lee a link to this thread as an FYI.

 

[wrench]

I've loaded thousands of rounds on mine, and had to replace the little plastic thingy once.
I agree with previous posters about Lee's directions, terrible. I can usually figure it out myself, though, and the press has been trouble free other than that.