Lee Classic 4 hole Turret - the plastic index coupler (aka the "weak link")

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Just for grins, I emailed Lee and asked about the short lived Square Ratchet and if they had any tips to extend the usedful life.

Lee's reply: DJ,
You are installing the ratchet corectly. In order to extend the operating life of the ratchet, add some grease to the index rod. Not to make the ratchet slide more easily, but to make it stick and drag on the index rod.
Give it a try.
Bill
Tech Service

Grease is not my favorite lube in a dirty environment, but that's what the man says.
 
IMO, the flange goes down--and here's why:

But first, a comment on nomenclature: to me, the flange on the square ratchet is that 'lip' around the edge of the square bore through which the index rod passes.

First, note that the insert area in the clamp is immediately adjacent to the round extension / top of the clamp. See this image.

Second, note that this picture with the clamp closed, the top of the clamp can clearly impinge on the lip/flange.

Third, this section of the Lee manual (for the 'standard' turret) shows it installed with the lip / flange down.

2woaxxy.jpg

The drawing from the manual would appear to show one could install it with the flange / lip up--but the picture suggests it will not fit properly.

Jim H.
 
Your nomenclature is incorrect but I agree with your assessment. The extrusion or "lip" is not a "flange". I've ordered more square ratchets as I anticipate needing them. I cannot see why it would matter if the lip is oriented up or down as there is enough play in the bracket for either.

TB
 
a couple of comments--

twice barrel: I stand corrected on nomenclature--what is the correct term for that 'part' of the ratchet--a "lip"? ("Nomenclature" here, I'm assuming, is out of a manufacturing lexicon.)

underdawg: The LoadMasterVideos resource should have been mentioned much earlier. I think their forum now has a fairly limited membership--but faithful ones, and I know some of the Load-Master videos for support have been updated by DarwinT and Shadowdog500.

If one follows out that LoadMaster post to the Lee link for turret adjustment, note that Lee uses an unpadded jaw to hold the indexing rod--my (update) rod was made of material so soft that I marred the shaft slightly--so now, if I clamp on to, I pad the jaws. (And, I think that turning counterclockwise is generally smarter to reduce drag. Whatever one does, it is important to keep the rod from turning if the ram / ratchet is "below the rod twist."

ISOW: ...and the "correct installation" is with the lip down, correct? As for lubrication on the indexing rod--the grease idea may be good; I'll have to try it on the pending ratchet replacement.

Jim H.
 
Yes and let us know how that works. I hate grease.

The clearest verbage for me is that it's shaped like a "T" with the widest end UP.

Relative to options, I suspect it may effect how it 'guides' into the spiral portion of the rod. When the push is 'down' the widest portion is being 'pushed' by the clamp thereby helping keep it level and not in a bind.

I'm convinced even if nobody else is....:D
 
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Geez I gotta laugh, I finally got to go back to reloading, using a rcbs jr. All was good I could single stage at ease watch tv and primer. Then I decided I deserved that LCCP. I got pretty frustrated with it all, I finally got it working realizing it was me that was the prob and that little black square thing that was in the bottomn of the box. Many thanks to you all, it does a good job now, I like it. Lee could take 5 min and 5 pics as u guys did and everyone that bought one of these would be so thankful.
Cheers
 
actually, 1SOW, I run mine wet now--e.g., I wipe down the indexing rod with CLP. Since I have been using powders that can dribble from the Lee (Pro) Disk measure--AA#5, True Blue--I have to do a general cleanup every few hundred rounds anyway, and it is NBD to wipe down the rod.

I hadn't thought of drag on the rod as improving the cycling. I'll have to try that.

Jim H.
 
Third, this section of the Lee manual (for the 'standard' turret) shows it installed with the lip / flange down.
Emphasis added

jfh,

For the record, the instructions that came with my newer Lee Classic 4 Hole press did NOT include that very helpful drawing. Lee seems to have digressed with their instructions on the 4 Holer. :banghead:

As for grease, I did apply a tad to the ratchet upon installation the 2nd time around, just for the purpose of holding the little squirmy bugger in place. I don't think the grease was a factor in that ratchet crapping out; I just think it was jad installing it improperly :eek: .
 
Little square ratchet? So that's what that was. I lost mine long ago, probably thinking it was rather unimportant, kind of like those extra rubber foot pads you find in the box for dvd players and the like.

Mine was fouled up by user error quite a while ago and I've been indexing manually since. Thanks to this thread, maybe I can get mine running as designed and speed things up a bit.
 
My first one went to crap after about 1000 rounds and with about 1400 rounds on my second one I've had no hiccups. You can reuse the onces that go bad. The wear on them just causes them to disform. I've heard that you can put some heat on them to allow them to go back to form. I've yet to try it though.
 
jfh: I tried CLP too-no noticeable effect. As the Lee rep said, the grease is not for lube but for 'drag' on the ratchet.
 
I was having a problem with the auto indexing not rotating the turret far enough to catch the detent ball. A close look revealed the indexing shaft was canted to one side and not centered or aligned normal (perpendicular) to the base of the press. I putzed around with it for some time trying to get it aligned before I discovered the top portion of the ram can be moved (circular motion) to bring everything into alignment. I put a screw driver (lever arm) in the slot where the primer arm usually sits and rotated it a small amount. I could see the slot in the ram was not in straight alignment with the relief on the cast body. That brought everything into alignment and now the turret catches the detent ball as it should.

I should also add that on the classic turret press the primer arm nests into the raised guide on the cast base. The classic cast single stage press does not have the same raised guide as the classic turret. This leads me to believe the primer arm aids in keeping correct alignment of the ram and thus the indexing guide for proper indexing. If you remove the indexing rod for manual turret operation you need to be aware of this when it gets reinstalled if things aren't working as expected.
 
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twice barrel: I stand corrected on nomenclature--what is the correct term for that 'part' of the ratchet--a "lip"? ("Nomenclature" here, I'm assuming, is out of a manufacturing lexicon.)

Jim H,

I don't know what the correct term is but I know of what you speak! :D

Loaded 132 rounds since yesterday which is the most so far. Indexing seems to be fine except for the occassional over indexing to the last stage (crimping) for some reason. I found that if I do not do a full stroke and stop just as soon as the turret flips forward the crimping die usually is aligned properly but sometimes I have to manually nudge it back a bit.

Also, I discovered that oftentimes the factory crimp die seemed to catch both on the up & down strokes. Finally determined I was over expanding the mouth and needed to back the die out a tad. Once I had done so I couldn't get my auto-disc powder dispenser in the correct orientation over the press. In addition, the doggone safety prime seemed to hang up more and more frequently requiring me to chase loose primers around and insert them manually. I have experimented with the alignment to the primer arm slot and have found the sweet spot as it were but still its been a problem.

Partial remedies:

A quick trip to Lowe's furnished me a couple of O-rings the same size around but much thicker than the ones supplied with the swivel and the powder dispenser. Just removed the one supplied with the dispenser and replaced with the new thicker one. This gave me a longer amount of adjustment where I could firm up the connection and still place the hopper over the turret properly.

I also located a firm rubber washer that I installed under the safety prime mounting bracket and hard nylon spacer. Its kinda squishy so when I tightend the bolt back up it only elevated the safety prime about 1/32 of an inch. Just enough I hope. Only hung up and chased one primer around today and it was the last one in the priming tool before being empty.

I'm getting better with it every time I set down to work up some loads. And I'm getting pretty good at changing the bushings out on the autodisc measure. Still need to work on remembering to shut that hopper off though. :eek:

TB
 
Flashhole & 2-bbl: The procedure for synchronizing the ratchet to the turret rotation position is in your instructions.

Hold (don't let it move) a 1/4" wrench on the square portion of the square index rod while you manually turn the turret head to the correct position. ( Make sure the handle is up to disengage the ratchet!) This is actually turning the lock nut at the top of the square index rod so the turret is lined up properly.

Sometimes I've had it be just a 'skosh' off after I adjust it. It may align for a couple of pulls and then be slightly off. Another little tweek using the wrench will fix it.
 
Thanks 1SOW,

I've done that and it indexes fine to all stations except the crimping one on frequent occassion...but only when I use a full stroke to rotate it. Not certain why it would only fail to index on just that last stage nor why it does it properly half the time.

Atleast the press is starting to hum now!

TB
 
about tweaking the turret indexing; FCD bumps....

I'm fairly convinced that we quit having detent / indexing problems (at any station) because, as we develop our optimum rhythm for advancing-and-indexing, we subconsciously adjust our lever speed to land in the detent. What this means, I think, is that you may well need to tweak the index rod nut setting from time to time, as your stroke is "developed". IOW, you are building a reportoire of "muscle memory" for this particular activity.

twice barrel: that "catching" of the FCD die on both the up and down strokes sounds more like the die is performing its marketed function: if you have a cartridge that is out-of-spec for finished diameter, the die post-sizes the cartridges--that is, the post-size (if needed) is done (at the very end)--i.e, the carbide sleeve slims down the assembly to ensure its fit into almost any chamber. That post-sizing is felt as "bumps" in the stroke. And that feature--the post-sizing, which allows assemblers of out-of-spec-components to build functional cartridges--is the most controversial part of the FCD die's features. Google "FCD" here, in this forum, and you can find those discussions.

Note that the FCD die body should be set fairly high to reliably do the crimp as the very last part of the stroke. (and now we could segue into the 'LOA-trimmed-cases' discussion, but let's not.)

In my experience, the die is best used when 1) one has finally got the components that will result in a finished in-spec for dia. cartridge, and the die is used as a crimp-only die. When used for its post-sizing feature, it allows the new user to clean up his cartridges, so to speak, for reliable function (i.e., in semiautos).

Note that we are NOT discussing the rifle / bottleneck cartridge FCD--that's a different animal.

Jim H.
 
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Huh? The FCD crimps at the very end of the stroke, not at the beginning! When the cartridge reaches the very top of its travel, just before it stops, is when the crimp is applied. This is after going through the post-sizing ring.
 
rondog--you are absolutely correct; that was a brain fart. I'm going to have do some out-of-spec assembly again, I guess. I corrected my previous post and elaborated a bit.

Jim H.
 
Man, you just messin' with Ol' Ron, ain't ya? Just tryin' to get both my brain cells arguin' and get me all confused, huh?
 
Guys,

I'm doing just enough crimp to remove the bell from the case. And now the bell is hardly visible and just barely lets the bullet start cleanly. I use the FCD as my crimp die and have noticed that when the die is properly aligned there is minimal contact on either the up or down strokes of the press. When it bumps the most is when I see the turret backup just a tad.

Upon completion it indexes around to the decap station perfectly.

Its not a major issue, just a point of figuring out what could cause it. Its only this station so perhaps the little square ratchet is just a hair off on just one side?

Just thinking aloud,

TB
 
i worn mine out in about 2k rounds.
i put the spare in that came with the press.
as stated in another post i too had no idea what the little plastic square was for when i set up the press i found this part in a little plastic bag, there is no reference to this part in the set up instructions.

later i ordered two extras from lee when i had to get a die part.
so far it is working really good.

i work the press at a steady slow rhythm.

i lubed the index rod with 60%moly paste and it works wll.
before i was using oil and it failed.

dispite these small mishaps i love this press...for the money it is great!

gizmodog
 
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