Lee Classic - a bit left over !

[flashhole]

"I suppose a full length sizer just means it sizes the full length of the case 'for width' and cannot adjust the case length as that involves cutting."

A FL sizer die will resize the webbing (body), neck diameter, and bump back the shoulder. It is your primary control mechanism for ensuring proper headspace in your chamber. RCBS makes a sizing die (X-Die) they claim will never require case trimming. You will find mixed reviews about the degree of success people have using that die. I do not recommend it for a beginner handloader.

"I might do the length sizing and neck sizing as the first two die operations which included popping the old primer..... "

One die or the other. You don't need or should not use both. The Collet neck die is the best design on the market for neck sizing but it will not affect the webbing or shoulder. That is why it will only work for brass that has been fired in your gun. Not all guns of the same cartridge have the same chamber dimensions. You have heard football is a game of inches, well handloading is a game of thousandths of inches.

"then switch turret heads and do the new primer, powder filling die , bullet seating die and crimping die

5 dies in all..."

You will find it best to keep everything on one turret but you will not need 5 dies because you only need one sizing die.

I find it very helpful to have a single stage press dedicated to brass sizing. You can see I have both the single stage and turret on my bench.

 

[flashhole]

The only consitent datum will be off the ogive of the bullet, not the length. The ogive is the area of curvature on the bullet before it gets to its fullest diameter. When a bullet mfg publishes Cartridge Overall Length (COL) data they measure from the tip of the bullet to the bottom of the brass. Bullet tips are notoriously inconsistent and it drives new loaders nuts trying to figure out what is wrong. But ... there is no standard for ogive datum points so COL is the metric we use.

Another tool is a bullet comparator that references length from a spot on the ogive. This is a good one. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=746974

 

[allserene]

ok so I will leave the collet die out and use only the full length die...

That will leave me with FL/auto powder/bullet seat and finally crimp - all 4 in one turret

most of my brass will be from my rifles but I will have AR-15 and a CZ bolt action 223's and some cases from the range so it will be mixed - so it's probably best not to use the collet die...

I will use the hand tools for case length trimming, chamfer inside and out, and pocket cleaning. Lots of retro weighing to check the auto feed discs measures !

I will get some wax when this lubricant is done

In will take advice from the gun shop on powder - get cci primers and aim for a medium load of everything at first

and I will make sure there are new bullet holes in the target before i chamber a second round !

 

[allserene]

I know that getting the right and consistent seating will affect accuracy, but providing I have reasonably secure seating, (this test bullet is seated very strongly and I cant wobble it) I guess safety/gun damage will not be affected if it is sat a little deep ? I get the feeling I am only scratching the surface (no pun intended) of this reloading stuff

 

[awgrizzly]

Suggestions on die setup using one turret and the reloading process. This is assuming you will use the autodisk powder measure on the turret and the Lee auto primer feature.

1) You need either the neck sizer or full length sizer, not both. This can be exchanged if you switch sizing methods, so you do not need them both installed on turret. Some have advised here that if you are shooting an AR15 you probably should size your cases full length else they may not eject. This operation will punch out the old primer, size the case and then insert the new primer when you lower the ram (press firmly up on the arm).

2) Next you need the powder charging die with autodisk measure installed on top. An alternative here would be to charge the case by hand using a funnel. It's important to occasionally weigh the powder load here.

3) Next will be the die for seating of the bullet. This step will also crimp the bullet if you choose. But I understand you have a crimping die.

4) The last die will of course will then be crimping.

That makes four dies and one turret. If you insist on having both sizing dies installed on the turret (do not use both on a bullet, just one or the other), you can opt to crimp the case with the seating die. Either way you only need one turret.

About the riser for the powder measure, which I take it to be a autodisk pro. Did it come with a riser? If not you may need to buy one if you are using the autoprime feature with the big round primer tray on top. You will probably need a powder riser to get the powder measure elevated high enough to avoid having it collide with the primer tray. Even then, you will need to position the powder measure over the center of the turret. Probably the best thing to do is to set it up without the riser first and if it hits the primer tray, get a riser.

BTW, the autodisk pro should have two options for the powder charging mechanism. Two different arms, springs, and the beaded chain. The chain and its arm and spring are for use on the Lee Progressive press and cannot be used on the turret press, because the turret rotates. You must use the charging arm and spring that gets activated by the shell pushing up from under the die. I'm not all that sure you can use the autodisk pro on the turret press... I have the autodisk with a pro upgrade.

Using the autoindexing feature on the turret press is neat and fast, but life isn't always neat. You will need to work in the process of case preparation, and this needs to be done after you have punched out the primer. So you may want to run all the shells through the sizing die first, and then inspect each shell for condition, clean out the primer pocket, and then use the Lee case trimmer. (To use this process you will not want the autoindex rod installed.) Then you can run the shell through the other stages (prime, charge, seat and crimp). The bugaboo is that to prime the shell with the autoprimer, you need to run the shell up into the sizing die again in order to pop the primer into the cup on the primer arm, which will further stress the neck of the brass. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO PRIME THE SHELL ON THE POWDER CHARGING STAGE. Many people rather use the hand primer than autoprimer... more stuff to buy. All this neat stuff works pretty good for straight walled handgun brass, but less so on necked brass. You may get by trimming every second or third reload... others here can advise on that.

Final stuff:
* Use a strict step by step process so that you always do the same thing. And always complete a stage before pausing. Picture this... your going through the process and have just charged a shell with powder when the phone rings. When you come back you resume by charging the shell with powder (Destination ER). This is probably the biggest hazard you will face. Always finish the bullet before pausing, and if you can't finish it, dump it and do it over.
* Use two trays for holding your brass, and move brass from one tray to the other for each step so you don't get them mixed up.
* Some bullets have a groove around them for crimping... seat the bullet to this depth. On others seat the bullet so that the cartridge is under the maximum overall length (provided in the loading book), but don't seat it too far.
* You want a good crimp but crimping too much will cause the brass to bulge, and on necked brass will easily crush the brass. Your separate Lee crimping die should less apt to do this.

Sorry about being so condescending... just wanted to get this all off my chest. Hope it's useful.

 

[allserene]

wow that's a great post - I will copy that to my manual folder

Don't worry about condescending coz I have never turned away advice - I drink it all up and nod politely through the bits I do know. It's the only way to do it... Information is the currency of power as it said on my calender

I am fixing the carpet cleaner now so I will return with any late thoughts...

The AR-15 use does make a diff though coz the last thing I need is a bullet down the spout on rapid fire or stuff happening when the bolt is not fully engaged

I think I will use the bolt action for the first batch....

Thanks for your effort

Alan

 

[awgrizzly]

Look at me! Not too long ago I came here sniveling around for help and advice. The folks here nursed me along to a point where I loaded a bullet and shot it without blowing my head off. Now I'm giving advice. Information, a gift that keeps on giving... thank you THR.

 

[RustyFN]

I didn't see it but could have missed it. You will also want a auto disk riser to put between the rifle charging die a the pro auto disk measure to keep the pro auto disk from hitting the safety prime.

 

[allserene]

I specifically asked Midway customer services about the riser this morning and they said it was only for progressives and I would not need it on a 4 die classic

There are so many configurations possible that I think they have lost track themselves

My fault for being tight as the riser is a few bucks - oh well I will have to go in to midway site and put my fifth order on - a fortune in shipping !

People say Lee's direct sales operation is much more knowledgeable so i should have gone there first..

Actually I think I will go there now

Many thnaks folks you have saved me yet another week setting this rig up

 

[soloban]

I've got a great load for your CZ-527. 55gr Hornady V-Max over 26gr of Win 748 lit with a CCI Small Rifle Primer. Seated to OAL per reloading manual.

 

[allserene]

I've got a great load for your CZ-527. 55gr Hornady V-Max over 26gr of Win 748 lit with a CCI Small Rifle Primer. Seated to OAL per reloading manual.

Noted !

I have the 22 LR CZ and I love it so I have ordered the 527 and it arrives next Monday !

Bought it at Buds for a super price.