Lee collet neck-sizer and seating dies

[Kentucky_Rifleman]

A friend I shoot with has been using the Lee collet neck-sizing dies on his .25-06 and his .308 lately, and he swears by them. He also swears by two bench rifles that I can outshoot with stock Remington 721s.

I've always neck sized by backing my Pacific rifle dies out 2 turns from FL resizing, but I want to pick up some NS dies. I'm not a competition shooter, but I spend a lot of time on my reloading. I know that Redding comp dies and some others have a much better reputation, but the Lees interest me, especially for as cheap as they are.

I'm also curious about the collet bullet seating dies from Lee, since the two dies often come as a pair. I already have stock Pacific or RCBS dies for all the rifles I shoot; am I better off using the RCBS/Pacific seating dies or the Lee collet seating dies?

Any experiences you can share with me about Lee collet neck-sizing dies would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance!
Kentucky Rifleman

 

[dagger dog]

KY,

I've used three methods to neck size only my .308 Winchester, the Lee collet die, RCBS neck size only die, and RCBS full length die screwed out far enough only to partially resize the neck area only.

The best group fired from the .308 rifle ( Ruger KM77VTMKII) was while shooting full length sized cases, so go figure.

I also use the Lee Collet with 2 Savage rifles a 22 Hornet and a .223 Remington both of those rifles shoot their best with the Lee Collets.

As far as easy to use, the Lees Collets win hands down there is no need to lube, no bushing to select. If you need a tighter bullet grip you can chuck the mandrel in a drill press and use crocus cloth to turn it to the size you need.

The Lee Dead Center seater dies are the dies I like best to seat the bullets, other than going for an all out bushing type micrometer seating die. If you buy the set Collet and Dead Length seater Lee will refund your money if it doesn't shoot the smallest grouping.

For the price I don't think there is a better value than the Lees. But if you are a Bench rest shooter or wannabe, you are better served with bushing type dies .

 

[Kentucky_Rifleman]

if you are a Bench rest shooter or wannabe, you are better served with bushing type dies .

I appreciate the input!

I am not a benchrest shooter. While I appreciate the art and science of that, I'm more interested in vintage bolt action rifles. I collect older Remingtons, and I shoot and reload for everything I collect. I especially like hunting with my Remington 721s and 722s, although I haven't gotten to do as much of that lately as I would like. (I'm working on that.)

My rifles will easily do MOA or less, as long as I do my part. Four of them will hold dime-sized groups from the bench with handloads. I'm extremely happy with the accuracy I'm getting, but more is always welcome. Mostly I'm looking to simplify my reloading without sacrificing the accuracy I'm getting now.

KR

 

[ranger335v]

"But if you are a Bench rest shooter or wannabe, you are better served with bushing type dies."

Yes, but...if you are a BR shooter or serious wannabe you will have a chamber neck so tight you can't chamber normal cases in it until they have been turned to a specific thickness. Given a precise neck a bushing can be chosen that gives a desired bullet fit without using an expander. If there is any thickness variation and we use a bushing die, the variation goes inside the neck. I don't like that.

For factory rifles with loose chambers and case necks of varying thickness a bushing is much less effective, IMHO. I much prefer the Lee collet neck sizers to any bushing dies.

 

[Walkalong]

The Lee "collet" sizer and "dead length" bullet seater set actually does a very good job.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Agreed!!

To come up with a better setup that can load more accurately assembled ammo (especally runout) you're gonna spend well over $100 on dies

 

[Kentucky_Rifleman]

I loaded the first batch of 7x57 using the new Lee collet die set.

It sure did simplify the reloading process, and the shells look good. I'm getting really tight consistency in OAL, and both sizing and seating processes feel very even.

I'll let you know how they shoot next week.

Thanks for the input!

KR

 

[BigJakeJ1s]

+1 for the Lee Collet Neck Sizing die (after puttng a forster/hornady lock ring on it)
-1 for Lee seating dies (dead length or regular)

I prefer Forster rifle seating and Hornady pistol seating dies.

Andy

 

[steve4102]

The Lee Collet Neck die is by far the best I have used. It produces extremely concentric brass(almost perfect) and requires no lube. The only draw back is Lees .001 neck tension. With many of my Collet dies I have to reduce the mandrel size a few thousands to get the proper neck tension.

 

[ranger335v]

"The Lee Collet Neck die is by far the best I have used."

Ditto.

I have made a couple of "Lee" mandrals for my .30-06 collet die, one a thou under Lee's design, the second a thou under the first. Get less runout and better accuracy with the original. ??

Runout with Lee's Dead Length seaters isn't quite as good, on average, as my much more expensive Forster BR seaters but there's really not a lot of difference. Both Lee and Forster seaters do a little better (again on average) than my Hornady, Lyman and RCBS seaters. Good brass, properly sized/expanded is more helpful with low runout than any seater.

 

[Walkalong]

Yep, can't seat bullets and make a straight round in crooked brass.

 

[prickett]

For the price I don't think there is a better value than the Lees. But if you are a Bench rest shooter or wannabe, you are better served with bushing type dies .

Hmmm, I asked about the best die on a bench rest site - expecting to hear Forester - but got almost unanimously the Lee Collett die. I bought one and am getting very good groups. And, I do like the longer case life and no need to lube the case or neck.

 

[Walkalong]

They do not use them in actual competition, at least not in 100 to 300 yard Benchrest.

Not bashing, they work well, they just aren't used by any Benchrest shooter I ever shot with.

If they were the best option, most everyone would use them, period. If dipping the bullets in Wolverine piss made em more accurate, the Benchrest boys would do it.

 

[ranger335v]

Walkalone is correct. But...there are valid reasons for what they do that don't apply to us!
Talking about what serious BR shooters do should include the fact that they shoot BR rifles, not factory sporters! They have undersized, tight neck chambers that demand the case necks be turned thinner simply to get cartridges into the chambers. Since their necks are all turned to exactly the same thickness a bushing can size them as needed for any neck "tension" the shooter might wish even without a neck expander ball. We simply can't do that and, for that reason, I question the value of bushing dies for us.

Our rifles have largish, sloppy chambers. We use factory brass that's already too thin for a tight fit. Turing our cases to a consistant thickness will only make that loose fit worse. Attempts to use a bushing die (without an expander) on our necks will simply push the thickness variations inside. That's not ideal.

So, IMHO, for best accuracy in our factory sporters, it seems best to lightly skim turn necks to remove the worst of the thickness variations and then size with a Lee Collet Neck Sizer. It's not magic but, on average, it does insure individual necks are as straight as possible AND the inside diameters will be quite consistant, with all the bullet grip a case can give...

Neck tension, and I mean real bullet grip, is much less than many think. All a hole smaller than about 1 1/2 thou under bullet diameter does is simply increase the seating effort (and THAT that INCREASES bullet runout).

You can easily prove the "tension" thing to yourself. Size a case and carefully mic the neck with your "normal tension" of 3 thou, or what ever. Seat a bullet and mic it again then pull the bullet and mic it again; you will likely find a final difference of only 1 to 1 1/2 thou no matter how much smaller the neck was before seating. All a smaller neck can do is stretch passed it's elastic limits, leaving a very small elastic grip to retain the bullets. Dick Lee knew that, he sized the mandrals in his collet dies to achieve that proper fit and then achieve good bullet runout numbers. It works too!

 

[Walkalong]

Talking about what serious BR shooters do should include the fact that they shoot BR rifles, not factory sporters! They have undersized, tight neck chambers that demand the case necks be turned thinner simply to get cartridges into the chambers. Since their necks are all turned to exactly the same thickness a bushing can size them as needed for any neck "tension" the shooter might wish even without a neck expander ball.

Correct. It's an apples to oranges comparison.

My 6 PPC Bench gun has a .262 neck. I inside reamed my necks and then outside turned them to the nearest .0001. (+/- a hair)

My stock heavy barrel Sako .222 Mag would shoot one hole groups using the Lee collet sizer and dead length bullet seater. Eventually the cases got hard to chamber, as can happen when neck sizing only (and I was running a hot load), so I switched to partial full length sizing bumping the shoulder a couple of thousandths. It shoots great that way as well.