Mauser lover
Member
This time, does anyone know what handgun he used? It’s definitely not a Colt, but doesn’t really look like any S&W I know of. Thanks.
Lee Harvey Oswald, again…
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Jim Watson
Member
A WWII surplus S&W M&P.
I think one of the many British Service Revovers reamed out for .38 Special for sale in the USA.
Sawn off, too.
I think one of the many British Service Revovers reamed out for .38 Special for sale in the USA.
Sawn off, too.
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.38 Special S&W revolver.
This Wikipedia article has several views of the revolver.
Here are more photos from the National Archives.
This Wikipedia article has several views of the revolver.
Here are more photos from the National Archives.
DustyGmt
Member
What pistol? One he used in connection with the plot or just a sidearm he was known to carry or?
Never heard about his pistol, just a 6.5 Carcano rifle is the only firearm I've ever heard associated with LHO. I always think of jack ruby whenever I look at my Cobra, it was a cobra or a det spec that ruby drilled oswald with IIRC.
Sorry for the slight drift.
Never heard about his pistol, just a 6.5 Carcano rifle is the only firearm I've ever heard associated with LHO. I always think of jack ruby whenever I look at my Cobra, it was a cobra or a det spec that ruby drilled oswald with IIRC.
Sorry for the slight drift.
.308 Norma
Member
Click on that link JohnKSa posted (post # 3 this thread). When I first read the OPs post, the first thing I thought of was Jack Ruby's pistol too. Then when I read the link JohnKSa posted, I remembered Oswald also had a pistol that he shot a police officer with when he was apprehended.
Old Dog
Member
LHO probably would have gotten away clean if he hadn't gone back to his rental house to pick up his revolver.
Side note, anyone who believes the Warren Commission Report but enjoys good fiction, read Stephen Hunter's The Third Bullet. Not only another great Bob Lee Swagger adventure, but it's very thought provoking and does raise some questions about the whole conspiracy aspect... But Hunter really delves deep into the ballistics of the Mannlicher-Carcano and Oswald's theorized activities before and after the assassination.
Side note, anyone who believes the Warren Commission Report but enjoys good fiction, read Stephen Hunter's The Third Bullet. Not only another great Bob Lee Swagger adventure, but it's very thought provoking and does raise some questions about the whole conspiracy aspect... But Hunter really delves deep into the ballistics of the Mannlicher-Carcano and Oswald's theorized activities before and after the assassination.
DustyGmt
Member
A Wiki search on Ofticer Tippett states that he was murdered with a S&W Victory .38spl snub nose
Mauser lover
Member
Yes, but...
That doesn't look like any S&W Victory I'm aware of. It appears to be a 5-shot? Also, note the lack of an underlug. I hadn't thought of it being sawn-off. Still, it looks like a 5-shot!
AlexanderA
Member
For reference, the S&W Victory, as issued to the British, is at the bottom in this picture. The British contract ones were all in .38 S&W, with 5 inch barrels. The middle gun, below, is the U.S.-issued version, with 4 inch barrel and in .38 Special. The top gun is a Colt Commando, also a WW2 contract gun. All 6-shot guns.
When the British guns were re-imported to the U.S., for civilian sale, many of them had the long barrels chopped short, and the chambers reamed to take .38 Special. This made them more saleable. (The barrel underlug would have been taken off as part of this barrel shortening. Note also that they re-used the original front sight, which made it too tall when placed on that thicker portion of the barrel.)
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If you look at the pictures in the second link I provided, photo #41 shows a picture of the opened cylinder taken from the rear. It is definitely a 6 shot.
National Archives NextGen Catalog
The online portal to the records held at the National Archives, and information about those records.
There is also at least one photo showing that the gun is stamped .38Spl.
lysanderxiii
Member
Very interesting pistol.
The pistol held at the National Archives is a Smith & Wesson Military & Police, s/n 510210. You can clearly see the British proof marks that state the pistol is chambered in .38" X 0.767" with a pressure of 3-1/2 tons, this would be .38 S&W. However, the frame is stamped ".38 Special" and the cylinder appear to have been re-bored to accept the more popular .38 Special.
Mauser lover
Member
There we go! Mystery solved. I missed the second link and had only seen the same photo from Wikipedia, which now looks like it’s just not locked, rather than being five shots. Maybe?If you look at the pictures in the second link I provided, photo #41 shows a picture of the opened cylinder taken from the rear. It is definitely a 6 shot.
National Archives NextGen Catalog
The online portal to the records held at the National Archives, and information about those records.catalog.archives.gov
There is also at least one photo showing that the gun is stamped .38Spl.
Anyway, mystery solved, K-frame .38 Special. Basically a model 10. High quality but affordable revolver. Which I suppose is the same story as his Carcano. Absolutely serviceable, very affordable.
Thanks for the help, peeps!
Monac
Member
I was told once that Oswald's revolver was found to be loaded with a strange collection of rounds, like 38 S&W, 38 Special, 38 Super (or maybe 38 ACP), as if he had been buying ammo one round at a time from assortments of loose ammo and just bought anything marked "38". I used to see boxes of odd rounds at gun shows, and I imagine gun stores used to have them too. Oswald had very little money.
AlexanderA
Member
Interesting. The .38 Special has a slightly smaller base diameter than the .38 S&W, but its case length is longer. As a result, these rounds normally won't fit in each other's chambers. But when a .38 S&W chamber is lengthened to accommodate a .38 Special round, then that chamber can use either round (after a fashion). Strangely, the .38 Super will also fit, even though it's a semi-rimless round. (It won't fit in either a .38 Special or a .38 S&W unmodified chamber.)
The reason a .38 S&W caliber Victory could be modified in this way, was that it was originally designed with the longer .38 Special cylinder. The British Webley and Enfield revolvers, in .38 S&W, cannot be modified to take .38 Special, because their cylinders are too short.
Mauser lover
Member
I also heard that when he was arrested he tried to shoot but the gun didn’t go off. Maybe this is an explanation?
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DustyGmt
Member
In the lil brush up reading I did on the subject the FBI had a heck of a time matching ballistics and firing .38spl through the bore and were unable to get repeatable, conclusive results compared to the bullets recovered from patrolman Tippett. It seems the cylinder was .38spl and the bore was not. Not an expert on this subject, I imagine there are enough conflicting details and obfuscation of facts, suppression, misdirection and sleight of hand to keep even the world's foremost authorities chasing their tails 10 lifetimes over.
It really is fascinating though, I can see how people get sucked in. The only people that really know the whole story are likely few, dead, or soon to be dead.
It really is fascinating though, I can see how people get sucked in. The only people that really know the whole story are likely few, dead, or soon to be dead.
Mauser lover
Member
Well, the barrel seems to be marked as .38 S&W. That’s like .003” bigger than .38 Special. That’s certainly enough to damage any conclusions that forensics would try to draw. Especially if multiple types of bullets were used.
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