legal to own a suppressor? TEXAS

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^^^NO, the Form 4 is not a title document. It is a tax document saying you are allowed to own a suppressor but it does nothing to actually confer ownership on you. If you are using a trust, you don't have to retitle the silencer to the trust, simply use a signed assignment of property document.

Some people try to get around the problem by filling them up with water or wire pulling gel. While it works to some degree, it also makes a mess with back splatter. Plus it is not terribly convenient to "recharge" the wet solution into the silencer after every mag.
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It's really not a big deal. You only have to charge it every 2-3 mags. I just shoot 3cc of water right down the barrel with the slide locked back, works like a charm. You learn very quickly how much water to use - you only get splattered if you overfill it.
 
NO, the Form 4 is not a title document. It is a tax document saying you are allowed to own a suppressor but it does nothing to actually confer ownership on you. If you are using a trust, you don't have to retitle the silencer to the trust, simply use a signed assignment of property document.
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Are you suggesting that you can transfer ownership of a suppressor from yourself to your trust (or vice versa) with nothing more than an "assignment of property" document? Since an individual and his/her trust are separate legal "persons", such a transfer requires a tax-paid Form 4 in either direction.
 
Now that I think about it- do I even need to do an "assignment of property"? Because the suppressor is being transferred from the dealer directly to the trust- not to me (an individual) and THEN to the trust. Am I looking at this correctly? The name on the ATF form 4 will be the name of the Trust- right?

MaterDei- Comal County
 
You do need an assignment of property to have the can officially "entered" into the trust. While the can immediately belongs to the trust according to the ATF, it doesn't legally belong to the trust according to trust laws until you, the grantor, assign it to the trust.

Basically you should fill and sign the assignment right after you pick up the can. I simply put the can's description and serial number, sign it, add it to the Schedule A, print new copies of both, and stick them in my safe deposit box.
 
Now that I think about it- do I even need to do an "assignment of property"?
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I am not a lawyer, but I would say No, for the reasons you gave above.

Because the suppressor is being transferred from the dealer directly to the trust- not to me (an individual) and THEN to the trust.
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Correct.

Am I looking at this correctly?
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I think you are.

The name on the ATF form 4 will be the name of the Trust- right?
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Correct.
 
You do need an assignment of property to have the can officially "entered" into the trust.
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Why wouldn't he simply add it to the trust's property schedule? The suppressor isn't going from the dealer to himself to his trust, it's going directly from the dealer to his trust.
 
Republic Arms

I second the Republic Arms idea...
I walked in there last fall...
They walked me through the paperwork, accepted a large sum of my money,
Told me to wait a few months...
Voila...
My LLC owns a suppressor.
PM if ya wanna try it out...
Bring .22LR subsonic ammo...
P
 
Why wouldn't he simply add it to the trust's property schedule? The suppressor isn't going from the dealer to himself to his trust, it's going directly from the dealer to his trust.
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There has to be an assignment document or a title document for everything the trust owns. Since a F4 is NOT legally a title document, you have to fill an assignment.

I'm not sure why everyone seems so resistant to this idea - assignments don't have to be notarized; filling in the can's description, printing it, and signing it takes maybe 3 minutes and costs nothing but some ink and a sheet of printer paper, and could save your heirs some hassle.
 
OK- I have everything together now. I will send in 2 Form 4's, 2 Certification of Citizenship forms, a copy of my Certification of Trust and my $200. Then after the wait, what happens? Do I get the tax stamped form sent to me or does ATF send it to my dealer? If I get it, I just take it to the dealer, show it to them, fill out a 4473 and take my suppressor home (it's already paid for)? Or does the dealer get the form and I wait for ATF to approve it, then wait for my dealer to call me and tell me they got it?

Also, how to send the forms? UPS? FedEX? Post Office Return receipt requested?

If I'm lucky I might have it by Spring Break!
 
wdlsguy (interesting alias):

You seem to have a handle on this process. I saw a bunch of your posts on ar15.com. Question- to which address do I mail my Form 4 with my $200? I have seen several addresses- Chicago, Atlanta, West Virginia... The form I have says revised November 2004 and has the Atlanta address. Is there a more current one or one that will be more expeditious to use?

TIA
 
I will send in 2 Form 4's, 2 Certification of Citizenship forms
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One "Certification of Compliance" form is sufficient.

a copy of my Certification of Trust
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You may need to send a copy (never the original!) of your Declaration of Trust.

and my $200.
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I use a check, so I can see when the funds were deposited.

Then after the wait, what happens? Do I get the tax stamped form sent to me or does ATF send it to my dealer?
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ATF will send it to your dealer.

Also, how to send the forms?
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I send mine via Certified Mail. Form 4's go to:

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
National Firearms Act Branch
P.O. Box 530298
Atlanta, GA 30353-0298

http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=17&t=199928
 
If BATFE cashes my check, is it an indicator of approval?
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No. They are going to cash your check before most of the process begins. If you don't qualify for whatever reason you will get your money back..... eventually......
 
is that new???

I thought the 200 bucks was non-refundable and if you were rejected, you just donated 200 bucks to the ATF. I am glad to hear its changed. Not that i have been denied, mind you.
C-
 
That is not new. It's built right into the law that they must refund any money for apps that don't clear - since you're paying a tax, it would be like overpaying your income taxes. The government owes you the money back.

I've only heard of the ATF keeping the tax once, and it was on a guy who illegally got a Form 1 approved to make a machine gun. They said they were keeping it but he was free to go, and he wasn't about to press the issue.
 
Call the ATF NFA branch in west virginia. They are very friendly and quite helpful. Tell them you'd like to check on the status of a transfer. You will have to provide the serial number of the item in question, and possibly the names of the transferror and transferee. They will then tell you one of four answers:

1) It's not in the system yet (ie, the application is fairly recent)
2) It's in the system but is not yet pending (ie, examiner has not gotten to your application yet)
3) It has gone pending (examiner is considering your application - can take a while)
4) It has been approved (you're now just waiting for it to show up in the mail).
 
So what is the best way to monitor the progress of my Form 4 through the halls of bureaucracy?
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Send it via Certified Mail, so you know that it arrived, and when it arrived.

Use a personal check, so you can watch for the check to clear.

I would wait 6-8 weeks after delivery before calling BATFE. Chances are you will have the approved form in your hands by then.
 
So, what did you buy? what brand, what caliber, what host gun?

post some pics when you get it setup!

-T
 
Starting off small. Got a Walther P-22 with 3½" barrel. Have a Gemtech Outback II at my dealer awaiting the stamp. I have held it in my hot little hands, but couldn't take it home yet. So sad.:(. If I like it, I may move up to a 9mm can. If I like that one enough, then perhaps one for a .223 or .308. But I am realistically thinking I am going to be disappointed in this 1st can. I'll have it and keep it for the gee-whiz factor, but I am already shooting CB caps out of an old long barreled bolt action rifle. The firing pin pounding home almost makes more noise than the bullet. So I don't really see the can being any quieter than that. If it is- I'll be elated. We shall see.
 
I dunno, I think you'll really enjoy shooting 22LR with a can. I certainly do.

Learn from the mistakes of others and remember, buy fully welded rifle cans, and make sure your centerfire pistol cans have boosters!

Enjoy your new can when it gets here.

-T
 
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