Legality of looting.

[Joejojoba111]

When you dive on an old Spanish Galleon and take stuff, is it looting?

How about on the Titanic?

How about taking stuff on a cruise ship that just hit an ice-berg and is sinking?

It seems to me a lot of the looting in NO is like taking stuff from a ship that just sunk, or is quickly sinking. I understand that there are special laws for naval vessels, based on Hugo Grotius' work, but in general what is the legality of taking stuff in those situations?

 

[goosegunner]

International waters:
General rule is the owner of the wreck desides. The difficoult part is finding who is the owner. On a sinking or newly sunken ship it is the original owner, and he is usually the owner until the insurance companies takes over or he sells the salvaging rights to some company to salvage for him. The price here is usually 50-80% of the value of whatever they salvage. But if you just dive down and take something it is usually considered looting. On older wrecks it is more complex as the owner have to do the salvaging within reasonable time or the ship is considered 'given up' and is free for anyone who wants to try. However, from an abandomed ship (sunken or not) you can salvage anything you want, including the ship, but you can't just keep the stuff, but you can claim 100% 'finders fee' and then it is up to the owner if he pays or let you keep the stuff.

National waters:
Usually the same, but some variations like laws that protect really old wrecks, like a spannish Gealleon, or wrecks with dead peope inside.

 

[c_yeager]

Funny how all of your analogies take place in international waters that are not within the jurisdiction of U.S. laws. Try again.

In the event that a wreck is within the territorial waters of the United States, then taking items from it is indeed considered looting.

 

[goosegunner]

Well, if it was in Norwegian waters the rule would be that if you salvage something it is OK if you give it back to the owner, and he might give you a finders fee. If you want to profit you have to agree on the fee before you salvage it. However most countries have 'harmonized' the rules on this area, with the most common difference from international waters beeing limitations to what can be done to wrecks of historical interest. I don't know of any contry where you can just keep the stuff, you have to offer it to the owner.

 

[Joejojoba111]

Hmm, interesting, but it sounds dangerously close to extorsion.

 

[jefnvk]

Probably depends on the actual boat too. Doesn't the US Navy have claims on any and all of their sunken ships?

 

[Flyboy]

Probably depends on the actual boat too. Doesn't the US Navy have claims on any and all of their sunken ships?

Yes, the government exempts itself from its own salvage laws. Google around for the case of the guy who recently recovered a rare Brewster-built Corsair (yeah, the WWII fighter) from, I believe, the swamps in Florida so he could restore it. It's taken an act of Congress to let him keep the airplane. (It should probably also be noted that the Army and Air Force tend to be pretty reasonable about such things, but that the Navy decided to be jerks about it.)