Lessons From Red Lake Shooting Could Help Schools In Vermont

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http://www.caledonianrecord.com/pages/local_news/story/8104d0385

Lessons From Red Lake Shooting Could Help Schools In Vermont

BY ROBIN SMITH, Staff Writer
Thursday August 18, 2005

NEWPORT CITY -- Laughter among friends died early Wednesday morning at North Country Union High School when the principal of ill-fated Red Lake School in northern Minnesota began talking via interactive TV.

Chris Dunshee had been the principal of the reservation school for seven years. He had dealt with homicide and suicide, gang problems and crime, but nothing compared to what happened March 21.

A new student shot and killed his grandfather and companion, stole weapons and went to the Red Lake School. Despite tighter security than many Vermont schools, Jeff Weise, 16, shot a security guard and then hunted down teachers and students, according to press reports.

Newport City police officers, fire chief, and health and school officials at North Country listened carefully as Dunshee described the horrific events.

Dunshee said he saw the security camera video of Weise walking through the school. "He looked like he was on a Sunday stroll," Dunshee said.

Within nine minutes, police engaged Weise in a gun battle that ended when Weise shot himself. Ten people, including five students and Weise, were left dead. Seven were wounded.

After the worst school shooting since Columbine in Littleton, Colo., in 1999, Red Lake School is still recovering, Dunshee said. Many students did not return to school after the shooting, and school officials are still trying to entice them back.

The school district is likely facing multiple lawsuits, Red Lake School attorney Mary Kay Klein said.

"An expert told us our security was essentially better than 80 percent of schools in the U.S.," Klein said.

Yet despite security guards, a fenced campus, a metal detector and other safety features, Weise still entered the school and killed people
, Klein and Dunshee said.

Weise had transferred into Red Lake School.

"This particular student and his particular problems could have been found in any school in the United States," Dunshee said.

Klein added, "If you have essentially a terrorist, a person who is willing to give up their life, there is probably nothing you can do to prevent that."

Wednesday's interactive TV workshop at Newport City, Lyndon, and 13 other sites included a tabletop drill and time for questions.

Vermont's School Crisis Planning Team is also circulating a crisis guide to help traditional first responders work with schools and community emergency volunteers.

Prevention work is crucial, Dunshee said. He urged Vermonters to make one-on-one contacts with teens, and give teens someone to alert if they hear of pending violent acts.

Drills are also critical, he said.

Dunshee said Red Lake School had previous conducted a drill where a security guard was shot and killed at the entrance. Teachers and students reacted correctly, he said, clearing the halls and securing the school during the shooting. Police were able to respond and attack Weise within six minutes, a far cry from what happened at Columbine when officers barricaded the school instead of immediately going after the two young gunmen there.

Vermont schools had been scrutinized in recent years over their open access policies. North Country is no exception, with multiple open doors and a relaxed campus approach.

"It's a respectful atmosphere," Principal Bill Rivard said. There are clear expectations for good behavior by students, but also adults give the students respect as well, he said.

Klein said openness at schools must be addressed. "Do we want our schools to become prisons?"

Other schools have opted for better communication with students over high security, she said.

North Country has a good relationship with local police and firefighters, he said. Radios, maps and regular contacts help, he added.

NCUHS will likely hold a mock shooting drill this year, Rivard said. He expects to conduct a schoolwide drill during the school day, and then another after school for emergency crews, Rivard said.

Vermont schools must hold 10 drills a year, according to school officials.

Dunshee urged Vermonters to include as many people as possible in the drills, including parents and custodians. "Custodians know a heck of a lot more about your school than you do," he said.

Jeez. Seems pretty useless to me.

Red Lake ran SIMULATION DRILLS where the unarmed security guard was shot. And they learned nothing from that?

Six minutes is an eternity when you have a deranged gunman in the building. It was time enough for Weise to kill 7.

Now the Red Lake principal (not a security expert, obviously) is there to advise. And what does he advise? "There's nothing you can do."

Here's something: ARM THE FLIPPIN' TEACHERS AND STAFF!

See my essay here.

It's just that easy.
 
Most teachers would REFUSE to carry guns. And the reason it hasn't been adopted yet is that the majority of the public would be very much against it.
 
Most teachers would REFUSE to carry guns.

I'd wager that 10 or 15% would be interested in L.A. and Boston, and maybe 50% in Dallas.

Some is much better than none.

Remember, the Israelis recruited parent (and grandparent!) volunteers to patrol the school with concealed weapons. And it worked.

And the reason it hasn't been adopted yet is that the majority of the public would be very much against it.

These are changing times. Attitudes can change, too.
 
Well, if the grandpa had kept the guns in a safe on a combo, the teen would not have been armed. So, no shooting. Duh. :rolleyes:

This case just comes to show that any tolerable security measures are pointless to prevent something like that from happening again. So, why waste the money of the taxpayer on such?

Maybe if people learn to stop treating each other as ****, there would be fewer non-random shootings. :rolleyes:
 
NCUHS will likely hold a mock shooting drill this year, Rivard said. He expects to conduct a schoolwide drill during the school day, and then another after school for emergency crews, Rivard said.

hah. mock shooting? don't be too close to me, because i'll bust his arse. preferrably with my other pro-gun friend. and if i can tell it's a fake gun i'd laugh. you know, like an airsoft or somthing.

~TMM
 
TMM, stop grandstanding. If someone pulled out a gun, you wouldn't try to see if it was fake or not - most likely you'd do whatever they told you to.
 
Some people choose to comply. Others don't. I think I won't because I can't trust the perp to spare me even if I do comply with his demands. I'd jump him at the first good opportunity.

That is part of what always amazes me about school shootings. One or two perps, not that many guns, they've got to reload sometime, yet everybody scattered under a desk and waited for his turn to get shot in the face, or ran and got shot in the back. Like spineless sheep for the slaughter...
 
CAnnoneer

That is part of what always amazes me about school shootings. One or two perps, not that many guns, they've got to reload sometime,


Just like on that train a few years back. That nutcase reloaded two or three times before they got a clue to jump him. Jumping him when he is facing you probably isn't going to work, but unless he has eyes in the back of his head, someone will be able to get him from behind.
 
Security guards

I understand that this year Red Lake security guards are armed. Maybe they did learn something after all.
 
ARM THE FLIPPIN' TEACHERS AND STAFF!

Correct.

Unfortunately I think many communities in VT wouldn't accept it. You might find public support for it in the rural areas of the state, maybe, but get inside Chittenden County, where the university students and out-of-staters settle, and you'd have quite a fight on your hands.

Hopefully this won't cause a knee-jerk reaction and bring about any new gun laws for us.
 
This raises another question. If it is a drill, and I beat the crap out of somebody playing a part (this means killing them- beating thier head in with the maglite I keep in my bookbag) what happens to me?
 
My assumption is that these are announced drills, so everyone knows what's going on. The sort that are announced over the PA before they begin; the ones all the students like because they get a break from class.
 
This raises another question. If it is a drill, and I beat the crap out of somebody playing a part (this means killing them- beating thier head in with the maglite I keep in my bookbag) what happens to me?

The answer is FUNDA NOODLES! Cut them down to the size of maglites and splash them with red paint. The students are supposed to funda-noodle the acting perp and take away his black (or gunmetal grey) funda-noodle. :evil:
 
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