Lessons learned from Hayes breakin, rapes and murders

[uspJ]

If memory serves me they entered through the back porch where they attacked the father while sleeping and left him in the basement.

 

[leadcounsel]

It's not entirely clear, but I read the method of entry was a basement egress window. Not sure if it was unlocked or broken. Says they lived in an affluent neighborhood. No excuse not to have some security measures.

First, assuming the exact facts of the situation, YES a gun could have saved his family. If he had a shotgun hidden in the basement where they tied him up, or someplace on the first floor, instead of escaping to the neighbors he could have gotten the shotty and ambushed the attackers, set a trap for them, etc. I know the news reports him as being badly beaten, but he could have gotten the shotty, drawn them to the basement or another room, and ended the situtation there.

It just amazes me that people in this day and age refuse to invest in $300 technology and readily available training that could save their lives.

While I feel bad for this man and his family, and I do feel bad, it is almost criminally negligent to fail to have these safeguards in your home to prevent this scenario from playing out. This is a textbook failure on his part. No alarms, no guns, no ability to fight back.

If I fell asleep on the couch and woke to someone hitting me on the head, I'd reach down to my hip, draw my .40, and end the attack right there.

And that's assuming they make it past my locked doors and windows, alarm system and dogs, either of which would wake me up.

This should serve as a loud wakeup call to folks... but this happened in 2007...

 

[uspJ]

First, assuming the exact facts of the situation, YES a gun could have saved his family. If he had a shotgun hidden in the basement where they tied him up, or someplace on the first floor, instead of escaping to the neighbors he could have gotten the shotty and ambushed the attackers, set a trap for them, etc. I know the news reports him as being badly beaten, but he could have gotten the shotty, drawn them to the basement or another room, and ended the situation there.

That is assuming he was in the physical condition to defend his family. If he did have a shotgun in the basement he may have been as much of a threat to his family as the invaders if he was suffering from dizziness and or blurred/double vision. I doubt he was in any shape to go gunning for the bad guys.

I understand your feelings on the matter. I would try everything in my power to SAVE my family armed or not, but depending on what my abilities where at the time I may have to get help to save them instead of taking matters into my own hands.

Not to mention the well documented disadvantage one has when trying to clear their home of hostiles and that is when the homeowner hasn't been beaten unconscious just hours before.

While I feel bad for this man and his family, and I do feel bad, it is almost criminally negligent to fail to have these safeguards in your home to prevent this scenario from playing out. This is a textbook failure on his part. No alarms, no guns, no ability to fight back.

Agreed. They had the financial means to take preventive measures to do so. I believe they felt that things like this wouldn't/couldn't happen in their nice, safe, neighborhood.

If I fell asleep on the couch and woke to someone hitting me on the head, I'd reach down to my hip, draw my .40, and end the attack right there.

Forgive my skepticism, but I believe the fight would be ended about the time the instrument being used to bludgeon you made contact with your skull. When I think of someone receiving trauma to their head they don't usually reach for their hip, they put their hands over the part of their body that is being traumatized. Perhaps your tougher than most, I don't know you personally so I won't argue about your ability to endure physical abuse.

This should serve as a loud wakeup call to folks... but this happened in 2007...

The attention of this case may be the only silver lining of this ordeal. I watched a special about home invasions recently where this was one of the stories highlighted. If I recall it was on Investigative Discovery.

I think with the frequency of which home invasions occur more and more people are going to take precautions to protect themselves both in and out of the home. There was a home invasion where I live a few years back and it got alot of attention in the area, afterward I spoke with the owner of my favorite gun store and he said that many people had purchased guns because they didn't feel safe not having a way to defend themselves.

 

[Corporal K]

They had the financial means to take preventive measures to do so. I believe they felt that things like this wouldn't/couldn't happen in their nice, safe, neighborhood.

That's it right there. I'm sure this was a nice family but they certainly did not have a home-defense mindset. Even an alarm company sign in their front yard or a little yapper inside the house may have been enough to change the goblins' minds.

As far as fighting back once you've been brained with a bat - maybe, maybe not. That's harder to 2nd-guess. I had a concussion once and I couldn't find my rear with both hands and a map.

 

[FLAvalanche]

What could have been done to prevent this horrific event?

In this situation I don't think anything would have prevented it.

This was a very well planned home invasion. Anything above what they already did would probably had been planned for.

You can do everything in your power to minimize something like this happening and making your home less of a target but in the end if they want you, they're going to find a way to get you.

Short of meeting force on force, nothing is going to stop it from happening.

 

[Deanimator]

First, assuming the exact facts of the situation, YES a gun could have saved his family. If he had a shotgun hidden in the basement where they tied him up, or someplace on the first floor, instead of escaping to the neighbors he could have gotten the shotty and ambushed the attackers, set a trap for them, etc. I know the news reports him as being badly beaten, but he could have gotten the shotty, drawn them to the basement or another room, and ended the situtation there.

More importantly, if the wife had had a concealed handgun, SHE could have done something when they sent her out of the house to get money.

 

[Deanimator]

In this situation I don't think anything would have prevented it.

It probably could have been prevented with better basic security.

It DEFINITELY could have been DERAILED if the husband or wife had access to a firearm.

 

[ATW525]

More importantly, if the wife had had a concealed handgun, SHE could have done something when they sent her out of the house to get money.

Perhaps a case for keeping a pistol in a safe deposit box at the bank?

 

[Deanimator]

Perhaps a case for keeping a pistol in a safe deposit box at the bank?

Perhaps. I'll bet they didn't search the wife's purse before she left the house. I haven't read the entire story for a while, but if I'm not mistaken, one of them went with her to the bank. If she'd shot him a block from the house and driven back, she could have walked right in the front door and the one in the house would have asked, "Where's so-and-so"... and been shot where he stood.

The bottom line is that to survive such a situation, you have to be determined to survive no matter what it takes and to be utterly cold blooded about it. People who don't survive these kinds of things tend to have scruples about lying glibly to a pitiless murderer then shooting him in the back without hesitation, no warnings, warning shots, nor negotiating in "good faith".

 

[leadcounsel]

If he did have a shotgun in the basement he may have been as much of a threat to his family as the invaders if he was suffering from dizziness and or blurred/double vision. I doubt he was in any shape to go gunning for the bad guys.

You mean more of a threat than his wife being brutally raped and strangled to death, and his daughter(s) being raped and burned to death???

Concussion or not, he managed to free himself and escape. He could have grabbed the hidden, loaded 12 gauge in the basement/ground floor and laid in wait or summone the badguys to the den, kitchen, etc. where he blasts one of them. Likely get one of these monsters and the other will either flee fast or turn into a hostage situation, and ultimately surrender to the cops.

Regarding being hit in the head, he states he awoke to "ow, ow, ow" feelings and he was able to fight back for a short time. Instead of punches, I would send lead. I'm not trying to be an internet tough guy... just saying that he was hugely disadvantaged and we've seen the result.

 

[FLAvalanche]

It probably could have been prevented with better basic security.

It DEFINITELY could have been DERAILED if the husband or wife had access to a firearm.

As I said, this was a well planned home invasion. Any basic security would have been planned for and nullified. This wasn't a stop and rob.

 

[Deanimator]

As I said, this was a well planned home invasion. Any basic security would have been planned for and nullified. This wasn't a stop and rob.

Perhaps better planned than average, but that's not saying much. Most such attacks aren't well planned, or planned at all, so any planning is superior.

Different doors and or locks could just as easily have caused them to pick an easier target. We're not talking Willie Sutton here, just a couple of animals who took advantage of an opportunity. Remove that opportunity and they go some place easier. If they wanted to WORK, they'd have gotten JOBS.

 

[skoro]

In any case, it's up to the individual to protect himself. Don't count on the police to save you.

Very true, KB. It pays to be prepared. The police can't be everywhere all the time. But wherever you go, there you are.

 

[MikeNice]

An alarm is a great place to start.

However, protective window film is great for slowing down an intruder. If it takes two or three tries to break the window that gives you time to get ready.

The you can add in a door alarm security bar. Then you have a pre-alarm alarm. The alarm sounds and gives you time to prepare before the intruder ever gets in. Plus it slows them down. It will take probably two or more kicks to dislodge the bar.

I took an extra step that some people wouldn't consider. One of my back doors has a storm door. I had it fixed so that the storm door will not open from the outside. I can use it for an emergency exit. To open it the intruder would have to pry it open. That means more noise and time.

Make the house hard to enter. Have an alarm so that once they do their is an audible deterent. A theif doesn't want attention. So, letting the neighborhood know what is happening might make them flee.

Never underestimate the effectiveness of things like a security/street light from the power company or motion detecting lights. I'm actually thinking about replacing my porch lights with motion activated spot lights. I don't think a criminal would feel very comfortable trying to kick in a door with a spotlight shining on his head.

 

[benEzra]

One thing that this case does highlight, I think, is the stakes. It proves that you cannot safely assume that all a home invader wants is some money and he'll leave you in peace. If those were the criminal's intentions, he'd be burglarizing unoccupied homes, not targeting occupied homes, and especially not targeting moms with daughters.

 

[Guns and more]

Don't count on the police to save you.
Don't count on the police to save you.
Don't count on the police to save you.

 

[Old krow]

We all have the benefit of hindsight here that the family did not. So, I try to keep that in mind and simply learn from their scenario. It doesn't look like they took any precautions at all, and IMHO that is a mistake, but that's about as far as I'd go except to look for holes in my own security plan.

I disagree about having dogs access the whole house. Unless they are trained killers and kept outside the bedroom.

Dogs are easy to kill/subdue with a gun, club, or poisoned dog treats.

It seems to me like this is more of a blanket statement. If I had to guess I'd guess that you owned dogs of a smaller variety? I do not believe that dogs necessarily need to be trained "killers" at all to be effective guardians. Most of the dogs of the "working group" pose a substantial threat to any human being with no training at all and have very strong "guardian" instincts. I'd think that the #3 option would be completely dependent on the dogs, the owners, and the house.

There are very few things that I love more than my dogs, but my family is one. I do not want to sacrifice either, but I would be willing to if needed. We'll never be able to cover every possible scenario here and there could very well be a scenario where I wished that the dogs were locked up, but, I think that those are smaller by percentage. In the end, I do not think that there is a "one size fits all" approach to dogs.

I do however think that applying multiple layers to defense of house/home is the appropriate strategy and there will never be a "one size fits all solution" to crime either. I think that this story goes to show just how bad it can get.

 

[Skribs]

I think I read an article on this, where the husband/father had said that he basically crawled away while still tied up, when the house was already on fire. By that point, he could not have gone inside and shot the home invaders. But I agree - the way society is nowadays, I have to assume that anyone willing to commit a crime against me is also willing to kill me. Whether it's because they don't want me to identify them, or because they want to. I'm a cautious person by nature, but I'd rather err on the side of my safety than on a home invader's safety.

FLAvalanche, you may not prevent ALL home invasions, but making it harder isn't a bad thing. If they don't leave, it gives you time to get your gun. Had he been aware of their entrance before they hit him, he could have easily had a gun on them when they entered, and had a much better chance of his family surviving.

One thing to keep in mind, if you have guns all over the house, make sure they're not easily accessible to the criminal. Think about it - they came in through the basement. If he had a shotgun in the basement, they could easily have grabbed it, gone upstairs with it, and shot him. It would subdue his family (trauma, mourning, and the loss of the only man in the house - I'm not trying to sound sexist, but stereotypically I think losing your father/husband when all that's left is 3 girls would be very demoralizing). Then the story would be 4 murders instead of 3, and no survivor.

That's why I keep my pistol in a safe that can easily be opened, even in the dark. Easy to get should I need it, hard to get should someone else want it.

 

[leadcounsel]

One thing to keep in mind, if you have guns all over the house, make sure they're not easily accessible to the criminal. Think about it - they came in through the basement. If he had a shotgun in the basement, they could easily have grabbed it, gone upstairs with it, and shot him.

Well, DUH!

First, the basement should not have been accessible or at least set off an alarm that awoke the family if someone entered it. Could have been done for $10.

Secondly, they got the bat from the basement because (I'm speculating) it was probably just laying around, leaning in a corner. You put the handgun in the box marked "Bread recipes" or "Scrapbook."

Thirdly, I'm not saying that my dogs lives are more important than mine or my family. What I AM saying is that my medium sized, strong dogs, are NO match for a murderous killer with a bat or a knife or poisoned piece of steak. My dogs are the ALARM. I am the defender. My dogs would be needlessly sacrificed (as would many peoples') if they were the first line of physical defense. If they do their job of ALARM, I'll take care of the rest.

1- should have had the house hardened
2- should have had it alarmed to alert the family
3- should have had a way to defend themselves once alarmed

How this story would have read if it were done at the homes of THR members here!

Trajedy struck one family today in X town. They awoke to the sound of their alarm and dog barking when two ex-convicts broke into their house. The family implemented a sound plan of quickly gathering and barricading themselves in their predesignated safe room. Mom called 911 and the 911 recording captured the sounds of the convicts breaking into the safe room and the dad shouting verbal warnings and then firing his home defense gun and ending the threats. It will be a messy cleanup, and probably takes months or years for them to put this behind them, but fortunately this family has survived the ordeal thanks to good planning and execution.

 

[Skribs]

"Well DUH!" Leadcounsel, just remember that common sense is an oxymoron - it isn't common.

 

[sidheshooter]

I'm missing something here (and obviously preaching to the choir). The gun belongs on you, not in the basement. God invented Ruger LCPs for just such reason...

 

[Skribs]

A shotgun or a rifle is a little cumbersome to keep on you 24/7, I think. Plus if you have a large collection, it's hard to keep them all on you.

 

[leadcounsel]

READ my post...

If I fell asleep on the couch and woke to someone hitting me on the head, I'd reach down to my hip, draw my .40, and end the attack right there.

 

[Old krow]

The gun belongs on you, not in the basement.

I don't think that he was advocating putting the ONLY gun the basement. I do not have a basement, but I do think that if implemented properly placing other guns throughout the home can have some strong advantages. I cannot carry at work, from the looks of it I am not the only one here that cannot. I enjoy having a means to retrieve a gun before entering, or shortly there after.

 

[One-Time]

I think we are overlooking one thing, one thing that likely resulted in all this and that we need to stop indoctrinating people with-

The mentality that when confronted by a criminal to 'just do what they say so you dont get hurt' this is preached ad nauseum by the left and people to scared to protect themselves, that IMO is mostly responsible for what happened there