Zaydok Allen
Member
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2011
- Messages
- 13,274
Ok friends and neighbors, here it is!
I've read a ton of posts over and over about how no one likes the internal lock on newer S&W revolvers. I understand the reasons why, and I wish they were not on the guns either. However, the bottom line is that they are, and I doubt the locks are going anywhere. This seems true since apparently their sales are and have been high enough to warrant producing and selling revolvers as they are currently being produced. I also see a lot of comments about documented cases of ILS failures.
So, let's generate some real numbers here. This is not an opportunity for people to complain, or debate the merits of the internal lock. This is meant as a number gathering exercise. The purpose of posting is being reserved for a specific purpose here.
Please read through the pole options, and select the most appropriate option. One vote will be allowed per person. I am only allowed to have 20 choices, so here is how it will work to cover the rest.
The first 15 choices will be "I've owned X number of S&W revolvers with an internal lock, and had no problems with any of them." If you have owned MORE THAN 15 and had no problem, DO NOT VOTE! Instead, post, and begin this way.
"No problems
X many owned (Should be a number greater than 15)"
If you have had problems with a S&W revolver that has an ILS, click on the poll option that is of the appropriate number. BUT ALSO, post in the following format.
"Failure, voted
X number of no problem guns"
If you've had MORE THAN 5 REVOLVERS WITH AN INTERNAL LOCK PROBLEM, DO NOT VOTE. Instead, post how many good ones and bad ones you've had. there should be more than 5 bad ones in your post.
The reason for the post instructions is that I am going to then go through the entire thread, and add up the results from the poll, as well as the posts that needed more options. I will then simply divide the total number of problem guns, by the total number of gun reported, in order to generate a simple percentage.
Since a failure to operate in a self defense senario is a serious problem, even if there is no damage to the gun, we will define problem guns as:
Any S&W revolver with an internal lock where the lock failed and needed to be repaired by you, a smith, or by S&W, or any S&W revolver where the internal lock engaged unintentionally and without the use of the key.
Also, if you had a lock and disabled it, I am throwing those numbers out of the count since it is not a relevant test of the mechanism, unless you had it functional for at least a year and shot it say..... at least 500 times. That's just the time and round count I am picking because I need to sort through that category somehow. Though a longer test period would be a lot better. So if you fit in there, include it in your count, on the poll.
To keep sorting through the thread easy, please refrain from lengthly stories or a gun by gun description of failures or proper function. If someone wants to build a seperate thread for that purpose in relation to this thread, go for it, but I really am looking for numbers, not stories.
Also, this thread is not meant to alter anyones opinions. Buy what you want. I just want to see how big of a problem the internal lock actually is.
P.S. I do not work for S&W.
Original post edited. I was already starting to get opinion posts, and posts that are not following the guidlines outlined for posting to keep it to numbers. I have removed my opinion from this thread, and am trying to keep it to numbers. I ask respectfully, that everyone try to follow suit, and leave opinions out. The bottom line is that in this particular thread, I don't care what anyone thinks about the lock system, I just want to record numbers of non-failing and failing guns.
Thanks All
I've read a ton of posts over and over about how no one likes the internal lock on newer S&W revolvers. I understand the reasons why, and I wish they were not on the guns either. However, the bottom line is that they are, and I doubt the locks are going anywhere. This seems true since apparently their sales are and have been high enough to warrant producing and selling revolvers as they are currently being produced. I also see a lot of comments about documented cases of ILS failures.
So, let's generate some real numbers here. This is not an opportunity for people to complain, or debate the merits of the internal lock. This is meant as a number gathering exercise. The purpose of posting is being reserved for a specific purpose here.
Please read through the pole options, and select the most appropriate option. One vote will be allowed per person. I am only allowed to have 20 choices, so here is how it will work to cover the rest.
The first 15 choices will be "I've owned X number of S&W revolvers with an internal lock, and had no problems with any of them." If you have owned MORE THAN 15 and had no problem, DO NOT VOTE! Instead, post, and begin this way.
"No problems
X many owned (Should be a number greater than 15)"
If you have had problems with a S&W revolver that has an ILS, click on the poll option that is of the appropriate number. BUT ALSO, post in the following format.
"Failure, voted
X number of no problem guns"
If you've had MORE THAN 5 REVOLVERS WITH AN INTERNAL LOCK PROBLEM, DO NOT VOTE. Instead, post how many good ones and bad ones you've had. there should be more than 5 bad ones in your post.
The reason for the post instructions is that I am going to then go through the entire thread, and add up the results from the poll, as well as the posts that needed more options. I will then simply divide the total number of problem guns, by the total number of gun reported, in order to generate a simple percentage.
Since a failure to operate in a self defense senario is a serious problem, even if there is no damage to the gun, we will define problem guns as:
Any S&W revolver with an internal lock where the lock failed and needed to be repaired by you, a smith, or by S&W, or any S&W revolver where the internal lock engaged unintentionally and without the use of the key.
Also, if you had a lock and disabled it, I am throwing those numbers out of the count since it is not a relevant test of the mechanism, unless you had it functional for at least a year and shot it say..... at least 500 times. That's just the time and round count I am picking because I need to sort through that category somehow. Though a longer test period would be a lot better. So if you fit in there, include it in your count, on the poll.
To keep sorting through the thread easy, please refrain from lengthly stories or a gun by gun description of failures or proper function. If someone wants to build a seperate thread for that purpose in relation to this thread, go for it, but I really am looking for numbers, not stories.
Also, this thread is not meant to alter anyones opinions. Buy what you want. I just want to see how big of a problem the internal lock actually is.
P.S. I do not work for S&W.
Original post edited. I was already starting to get opinion posts, and posts that are not following the guidlines outlined for posting to keep it to numbers. I have removed my opinion from this thread, and am trying to keep it to numbers. I ask respectfully, that everyone try to follow suit, and leave opinions out. The bottom line is that in this particular thread, I don't care what anyone thinks about the lock system, I just want to record numbers of non-failing and failing guns.
Thanks All
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