Libertarian Party=Ideological Chum Bucket of Two-Party System

[BigG]

Conservatism’s relationship to the GOP is quite analogous to libertarianism’s relationship to conservatism, in that both are punctuated with frequent disappointment and frustration.

This statement has merit except that from my observation several who call themselves "libertarians" are little more than flaming liberals - in the modern sense of the word hardly on the conservative page and basically agents provocateurs.

As for the claim that libertarianism is utopian, at least for me, it is the exact opposite.

I don't get the sense that libertarianism itself is utopian - more so that the true believers are wishing for utopia, i.e., wishful thinkers without much grounding in practical things.

A further thought I get is libertarians each want their own little perfect world that would be spoiled by the presence of other people. My guess is each one would turn into a little Hitler if their every whim was not obeyed.

I hope I'm wrong.

 

[ArmedBear]

Here's the problem with the Libertarian Party. It's obvious from this thread.

People don't read a damn thing, but they spew forth volumes of crap.

People who seem quite articulate and educated can't tell the difference between the Libertarian Party and libertarian thought. A criticism of the Libertarian Party, which one would be insane to call a political success, is quickly defended by a bunch of posts that are defending ideas. They're ideas that most of us agree with most of the time. Nobody here is disputing core libertarian ideas.

The two entities -- Libertarian Party and libertarian thought -- are NOT THE SAME entities.

I don't care how much I like the ideas or Rand, Friedman, Mises, Hayek, Jefferson or whomever. The Libertarian Party is not an idea, it is an organization.

Criticisms of an organization are not the same as attacks on the ideas it supposedly incorporates. It doesn't represent the ideas. None of the people mentioned above were even members. Ever.

If you take a criticism of the Libertarian Party, which has failed to get anyone of significance into office, not even Ron Paul, and try to turn it into an attack on libertarian ideas and values, you are showing that you are one of four things:

1. Functionally illiterate at this level of conversation
or
2. Disingenuous
or
3. Strongly prone to emotional reaction where rational thought is appropriate.
or
4. So unwilling to take constructive criticism from people who SUPPORT 90% or more of your ideals, when the LP has not worked as a political party, that you can't even stop for a second to consider what you're reading or writing.

Which is it?

None of the above would bode well for the LP. And surprise, the bad boding has been matched with a sad reality.

For people who claim "reason", there's a shocking unwillingness to look at reality, and a further unwillingness to try to improve based on that data.

And no, "We lose because everyone is stupid! There's no way out!" is not an answer that leads anywhere.

"Libertarian Party" is not the same thing as "libertarian thought." The GOP is not synonymous with conservatism, nor the Democratic Party with liberalism.

Start there. Or don't. But the irrational defensive reactions are telling.

 

[High Planes Drifter]

GoPaul wrote:

Opposing redefining over six thousand years of human histories definition of what marriage and family is, is not an abridgment of separation of church and state.

Its not? Marriage isnt a religious union? So interfering with the Mormons' practice of Polygamy isnt an abridgement of church and state?

 

[Jeff]

I agree with you , ArmedBear. And I think most Libertarians hold significant criticism towards their party; chiefly, that the Party has problems getting anything done. It's a serious problem, and it's because we, by our very own nature, our NOT politicians.

That's why I am a firm believer in 2 things, which typically go against the ideologue members of the Party: a) try to wrok as much as you get on the small levels. Let's get people elected to state offices. Start small. All politicals is local.

b) Work from within a major party, usually the Republican party. For reasons I don't wish to get into here, but have stated on other threads, it is totally justified and legitimate.

Furthermore, I think much of the criticism that comes from Libertarians on these threads is borne out of the incessant name-calling and finger pointing by the Conservatives who cannot do, themselves, exactly what you are suggesting: being able to separate the ideas from the Party.

 

[araiford]

There are some really broad brushes here.

 

[Don Gwinn]

There are several simultaneous arguments going on that are all off-topic for this board, so I think we'll let this one rest.