Liner locks ?

[joneb]

Well some of my folders are lock backs, I've recently bought four liner lock folders a Rat 1 and 2, and two Chinese folders. I do check the folders I buy to see if they are safe, I put on the welding gloves and wack the spine of blade on the edge of a wood bench, I then do a stab test. So far these liner lock folders seem sound, so why are some so opposed to liner lock folders?
I don't mean to stir the pot but I haven't found a issue YET with my recently aquired liner lock folders.
I guess if I needed a battle ready folding knife the liner lock would be inferior to other designs, but then I would rather have a fixed blade. I just like a good safe usable folding pocket knife.
Heck a lot of my folders don't even have locks.
Thanks.

 

[D.B. Cooper]

Well some of my folders are lock backs, I've recently bought four liner lock folders a Rat 1 and 2, and two Chinese folders. I do check the folders I buy to see if they are safe, I put on the welding gloves and wack the spine of blade on the edge of a wood bench, I then do a stab test. So far these liner lock folders seem sound, so why are some so opposed to liner lock folders?
I don't mean to stir the pot but I haven't found a issue YET with my recently aquired liner lock folders.
I guess if I needed a battle ready folding knife the liner lock would be inferior to other designs, but then I would rather have a fixed blade. I just like a good safe usable folding pocket knife.
Heck a lot of my folders don't even have locks.
Thanks.

Liner lock takes some getting used to if you grew up with the lock back style (a la Buck 110). I didn't like them at first. My Swiss Army One Handed Trekker has it, and I've grown to live with it. Better than my previous, non-locking SAKs. The Boy Scout manual will tell you that, if you use the knife properly and safely, as the tool is designed, you shouldn't need a lock. I prefer that extra layer of safety.

As for a "battle ready" knife, you're right to prefer a fixed blade. A knife is a tool, a bayonet (or KaBar or dagger or whatever) is a weapon. I think people have difficulty separating the two. As with most things in this world, a knife can be pressed into emergency service as a weapon, but that isn't it primary purpose.

 

[jmr40]

If you're working hard to cut through something tough and have a firm grip on the handle the pressure of your hand can unlock the blade and allow it to close on your hand even with a quality knife. And some more inexpensive knives will unlock a lot easier.

With a quality knife, and I think the RAT knives are, this should be very rare. The problem is more theoretical than real. But it is possible. I have some liner lock knives that I like. But it isn't my favorite locking system.

There are a lot of quality knives out there with the similar frame lock. It is a stronger method, but I find them difficult to open and just don't like that style of lock. The Benchmade axis system, or similar is my favorite, and what I think works best. Hogue and Spyderco, probably others, offer knives with a similar style of lock.

Most of the traditional Buck knives have the lock back at the rear of the handle which is fine, but some newer designs made by Spyderco and others have the lock in the middle of the handle. This is my 2nd choice when deciding on a knife.

 

[Wishoot]

I have a few different lock types. While I'm more accustom to Frame locks, my new favorite EDC (Ontario RAT II) is a liner lock. I think you have to work this knife very hard to have this lock fail.

 

[hso]

why are some so opposed to liner lock folders?

You do remember the two knives you ordered with poor lock engagement? I've seen even worse than "just engaged" and "all the way over" with badly constructed liner locks where there wasn't enough engagement to actually lock the blade open. I've also seen liner locks that were so prominent that they were easily unlocked in use. Of the, literally, thousands of knives I've handled it is liner locks that I've seen the most problems with improperly constructed locks.

 

[Yo Mama]

I also personally would not spine whack a folder to test its strength. It does however deform the lock face quickly.

 

[Boattale]

The motion needed to disengage and close a liner lock puts parts I don't want cut in a place where they can be cut. Happened to me with a leek. Don't like frame lock either, to me they are awkward to operate even if they are strong. So. Give me an axis or lockback or no lock at all.

 

[joneb]

Thanks for your thoughts. I still have a Uzi Defender that was a gift from 15+ years ago, when I put a death grip on the handle I can disengage the liner lock. This is the only liner lock that I have been able to do this with.

 

[Whiterook808]

The motion needed to disengage and close a liner lock puts parts I don't want cut in a place where they can be cut. Happened to me with a leek. Don't like frame lock either, to me they are awkward to operate even if they are strong. So. Give me an axis or lockback or no lock at all.

This is also my primary concern. I don't like putting my finger in the path of the blade.

 

[TheWarhammer]

My favorite EDC knife is a CRKT M21-14SF.




It's a liner lock with CRKT's AutoLAWKS safety, which adds an auto-engaging safety to the liner lock. This keeps the liner lock from disengaging accidentally while using the knife. Once you get used to it, it's easy close one handed. In the 13 years I've owned it, I've never cut myself operating the knife. In fact, I'd say you would have to either be trying to cut yourself while closing it, or just doing something really stupid. The lockup is really solid and the knife feels good in the hand. The dual flippers for am hilt, to help keep your hand safely behind the blade, even when the knife is wet or slippery. I also like that the flippers can be used to open the knife while drawing it from the pocket in a single stroke.

 

[Obturation]

Heck a lot of my folders don't even have locks.

If I'm going to use a knife strictly to cut as it's intended, I don't care if there's a lock. My work knife is a svord peasant and has been for some time- no problem.
On a knife that there is a chance I'll stab with, axis lock is my preference . I carried a 940 for years (about to go back to it) and for the past couple years been carrying a benchmade cla (which I don't particularly like), they've served me well and I have confidence in the design.
As everyone else, I prefer a fixed blade for real work but they just don't carry as easily or discreetly.

Liner locks? I wouldn't hesitate to buy one if I liked the knife but I would use it like I use a SAK or similar. Same with lockback, I'm fine with it if it will be used as intended. I don't know anyone who batons a folding knife or uses one as a climbing spike or anything . be cool with your folders and you won't find out what will make it bite you, applying downward pressure on the edge (normal use) typically doesn't make it spring back and cut you.

 

[greyling22]

Somebody, I think it was bladehq tested the lock types on I think it was Spyderco knives. Some are definitely stronger than others, but they all held up to 250-900lbs of force. More than enough for reasonable use.

 

[JohnKSa]

It's a liner lock with CRKT's AutoLAWKS safety, which adds an auto-engaging safety to the liner lock. This keeps the liner lock from disengaging accidentally while using the knife.

That's a good idea. Of course, one could also note that the fact that a manufacturer actually felt the need to make a knife that has a lock for a liner lock says something about the liner lock design.

I don't have a lot of liner locks, but the ones I do have are relegated to light duty. Besides the issue that squeezing the handle can disengage the lock in some cases, every liner lock I've ever tested (I'm not claiming it's a huge number because I don't have many of them and I don't do that kind of testing on other people's knives) would unlock with light taps on the spine of the blade. If the locking surface on the blade has a noticeable angle to it, then the tap will bump the liner lock just slightly out of hard engagement and the angle of the locking surface then drives the liner to the side to unlock. It's a function of the design of most liner locks.

The issue could be addressed with a very strong spring or by making the angle of the locking surface flat, or nearly flat, but that brings up other issues.

I don't crusade against them or anything, but I don't spend much of my money on them. When I'm looking for a really nice knife to buy, I don't consider ones with liner locks. For example, one of the liner locks I have was a gift, and another one was a screaming good deal on a decent knife with a VG10 blade that I couldn't pass up. All of my really nice folders use other locking methods.

 

[Mars5l]

My EDCs are liner lock and never had an issue. Why? Because I use them for an intended use only, IE cutting open packages at work for the most part. I don't use them for prying, whacking, or bending if I need to do that then I get appropriate tool. I go on a more secluded hike I'll bring a large fixed blade

 

[skoro]

I have a Case Trapperlock and Kershaw Leek that are both liner locks. Never had an issue with either and consider both to be excellent knives. Of course, if subjected to extreme stress, either could possibly fail. But I avoid using knives or other tools that way.

 

[carsten1911]

Lefty here....so liner locks are a definite recipe for desaster.
None for me, never.

Backlocks and fixed blades rule my cutting world.

Greetings from across the pond.

Carsten

 

[sparkyv]

I have many liner locks, frame locks, and other locking folders and many slip joints. They all work exceeding well for my needs. I don't envision ever needing to use a folder in such a way as to injure myself; I use the folding knife as it's designed. If I have more challenging use for a cutting tool, I'll use one of my fixed blade knives or a hand axe...and yes, I have them all in my GHB, BOB and other places at the ready.

 

[John Joseph]

I've got two liner locks. I don't like either of them

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Preference. I have some liner locks that I do not trust for anything but peeling an orange. I have several frame locks and lock backs, and greatly prefer them. Lock backs feel the sturdiest to me.

 

[theotherwaldo]

I've had back locks fail more often than liner locks.
Luckily, I don't trust locks at all.
Safeties of any kind only have to fail once... .

 

[Speedo66]

I've had back locks fail more often than liner locks..

Same. Started with the first lockback knife I bought about 60 years ago, a Mercator K-55K.

 

[Trunk Monkey]

The only Liner Lock I have is a CRKT Ignitor that lives in my work backpack. I've never had a problem with it but I prefer my Buck 110 Slim back lock.

 

[waterhouse]

My only remaining liner lock is an Emerson. I trust that one, and in fact carry it every day I’ve worked for over a decade, mostly because I carry it support side and it’s only purpose is weapon retention and the wave feature allows me to basically open it automatically with my left hand.

I’ve had a few other liner locks not lock up, and a few others that barely did and that I could intentionally unlock just by shifting my grip, and in general I don’t care for them. I’ve gotten rid of several and don’t plan on buying another.

Based solely on the ones I have owned, my guess is that, when done correctly, liner locks are fine, but it must be hard to do correctly as there seem to be many poor designs. I’ll keep my Emerson, but I don’t generally trust liner locks.

 

[RA40]

The liner lock has some characteristics to be aware of in use and in certain applications they may be unintentionally unlocked. A fixed blade with good guards is generally an all around tool for a multitude of tasks. Folders enable a compact carry option with that limitation the lock may not provide rigidity under certain situations. I've carried liner lock type knives for ~25 years and have been conscious to be aware what uses may promote lock failure. I look at it like trying to use a locking plier (Think Channellock model 430 style) in the opposite grip orientation to tighten or loosen a pipe. It does not provide the leverage if used for opposite loads. Overall I do like the liner lock type mechanisms and some build them robustly and others not so.

 

[lemaymiami]

If I had to carry or use a liner lock I'd manage... and do my best to master it, but it wouldn't be my first choice at all...