Probably the best plan. I use Unique with a 260 grain lead bullet and have been content with the results from my 25-5. I get about 900 fps and yes, it does anchor deer.
Good luck!
Kevin
Little help? Lead confusion for .44 1858 Pietta
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Good luck!
Kevin
rodwha,
Your devotion to the conical bullet is legend. Personally, I have used 44 C&B revolvers since the 60s with RB and have found them to be adequate to my needs. Good luck with your quest to carry the message to the masses.
Kevin
Your devotion to the conical bullet is legend. Personally, I have used 44 C&B revolvers since the 60s with RB and have found them to be adequate to my needs. Good luck with your quest to carry the message to the masses.
Kevin
My devotion to a conical mostly extends to just handguns meant for things that may harm you. I'd much prefer a heavy conical I know can travel nose to tail that has a design intended to create the largest wound track possible, much like Keith-style bullets.
I'm sold on a ball from my .50 cal rifle and would only use a conical if I were hunting something very large or further than I'd feel comfortable with a ball.
You mentioned using a ball through your pistols for decades and doing everything you'd ever want. Do you hunt with yours, especially something like hogs?
When I first got my Ruger Old Army from my father I noticed it was about the same size as a .45 Colt, and with that I began asking questions on several forums if it was capable of that kind of performance (modern day ~450 ft/lbs) and was told absolutely not by far too many, that at best it might give .38 Spl energy levels (~250 ft/lbs).
But I eventually found chronographed results and several who actually do so and found the common theme. Those who denounced it all used weaker powder unable to perform to this level, whereas the people who were using them and were finding that level of performance were all using Swiss or Triple 7 (and now Olde Eynsford).
Now that I know it can indeed be done I cannot help myself but show that it can to those who ask. I was once in their shoes listening to those who didn't know better.
I'm sold on a ball from my .50 cal rifle and would only use a conical if I were hunting something very large or further than I'd feel comfortable with a ball.
You mentioned using a ball through your pistols for decades and doing everything you'd ever want. Do you hunt with yours, especially something like hogs?
When I first got my Ruger Old Army from my father I noticed it was about the same size as a .45 Colt, and with that I began asking questions on several forums if it was capable of that kind of performance (modern day ~450 ft/lbs) and was told absolutely not by far too many, that at best it might give .38 Spl energy levels (~250 ft/lbs).
But I eventually found chronographed results and several who actually do so and found the common theme. Those who denounced it all used weaker powder unable to perform to this level, whereas the people who were using them and were finding that level of performance were all using Swiss or Triple 7 (and now Olde Eynsford).
Now that I know it can indeed be done I cannot help myself but show that it can to those who ask. I was once in their shoes listening to those who didn't know better.
Chronograph data
.44 Remington Pietta/ 8 inch barrel / #10 Remington caps / soft lead bullets/ no wads/ grease over ball/ Pyrodex P
.454 141 gr. RB
40 grains Pyrodex P = 1185 fps
200 grain Lee conical bullet
35 grains Pyrodex P = 984 fps
Both loads figure up to be slightly less than 450 ft.lbs., but not by much.
So is the extra expense and or trouble procuring Swiss / Olde Enysford / or Triple 7 worth it. Fair and balanced, you decide. OYE
.44 Remington Pietta/ 8 inch barrel / #10 Remington caps / soft lead bullets/ no wads/ grease over ball/ Pyrodex P
.454 141 gr. RB
40 grains Pyrodex P = 1185 fps
200 grain Lee conical bullet
35 grains Pyrodex P = 984 fps
Both loads figure up to be slightly less than 450 ft.lbs., but not by much.
So is the extra expense and or trouble procuring Swiss / Olde Enysford / or Triple 7 worth it. Fair and balanced, you decide. OYE
To be certain, were I good enough and so inclined, I'd use a powder puff load with cereal grains and a ball if it was what was the most accurate. It's all about smallest groups and nothing more. And I would even do so if I wanted to use it for small game hunting since the target is so small and there's no need for power.
And it's not that I doubt a ball would work on medium game. I'm certain it would as it's no different than a .45 PRB from a rifle at range. I just feel a WFN design creates a better wound than a ball or a RN conical such as the Lee.
And the other part is that I greatly enjoy creating things and "improving" things where I think I can. I just had Tom modify my heavier bullet to make one work for my Remington:
http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-245C-D.png
I figure this ought to replicate a .45 Colt load fairly well and it's one that will fit in my Pietta (I had to modify the loading window for my others to work).
And it's not that I doubt a ball would work on medium game. I'm certain it would as it's no different than a .45 PRB from a rifle at range. I just feel a WFN design creates a better wound than a ball or a RN conical such as the Lee.
And the other part is that I greatly enjoy creating things and "improving" things where I think I can. I just had Tom modify my heavier bullet to make one work for my Remington:
http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-245C-D.png
I figure this ought to replicate a .45 Colt load fairly well and it's one that will fit in my Pietta (I had to modify the loading window for my others to work).
Goex Olde Eynsford costs $2 more than Pyrodex from Grafs. But I greatly dislike the sticky residue it leaves and seeing the level of corrosion and the speed of it compared to BP, and even more than T7. Not that I'd leave them untreated so it's not exactly relevant.
I've seen varying results from Pyrodex P. Some show barely more than standard Goex unless the pellets are used. Maybe it's changed over the years and is more energetic these days? The levels of performance you see is more than adequate to me, however I'm likely getting that level of performance with a load that proves more accurate than a full load. And that means all the difference to me as one isn't so great without the other.
I've seen varying results from Pyrodex P. Some show barely more than standard Goex unless the pellets are used. Maybe it's changed over the years and is more energetic these days? The levels of performance you see is more than adequate to me, however I'm likely getting that level of performance with a load that proves more accurate than a full load. And that means all the difference to me as one isn't so great without the other.
Actually we've found the accuracy to be excellent in both the posted loads.
As far as corrosion we have none. We have never found the residue to be sticky.
We typically completely disassemble the revolver for cleaning 2 times each year. We've never had a sign of any corrosion at all. Pyrodex P is far cheaper in our local market and is easily obtained. We are not in Texas. OYE
As far as corrosion we have none. We have never found the residue to be sticky.
We typically completely disassemble the revolver for cleaning 2 times each year. We've never had a sign of any corrosion at all. Pyrodex P is far cheaper in our local market and is easily obtained. We are not in Texas. OYE
It sounds like Pyrodex is a great thing for you giving you no reason to opt for anything else. If you are happy then it's a good thing, and the numbers, if those matter to you, are also good.
Maybe I find the residue to be sticky due to the high levels of humidity here (generally about 75%) or maybe it's the results of mixing with Gatofeo's #1 lube that does it.
There's a fellow who did a test on a piece of steel placing a pile of Pyrodex, BP, and T7 and lit each and then placed it in his garage for 4 days (IIRC) and found Pyrodex left the greatest and far worse pitting and rusting. T7 was nearly pristine. Of course if you deal with it in a timely fashion it doesn't matter much.
My father gave me a few cans of Pyrodex with the pistol, and seeing the numbers posted from chronograph results showed much lower numbers closer to what standard Goex and the like gave, which for hunting were not sufficient. I only use it to break in new guns now as I hate wasting stuff.
Maybe I find the residue to be sticky due to the high levels of humidity here (generally about 75%) or maybe it's the results of mixing with Gatofeo's #1 lube that does it.
There's a fellow who did a test on a piece of steel placing a pile of Pyrodex, BP, and T7 and lit each and then placed it in his garage for 4 days (IIRC) and found Pyrodex left the greatest and far worse pitting and rusting. T7 was nearly pristine. Of course if you deal with it in a timely fashion it doesn't matter much.
My father gave me a few cans of Pyrodex with the pistol, and seeing the numbers posted from chronograph results showed much lower numbers closer to what standard Goex and the like gave, which for hunting were not sufficient. I only use it to break in new guns now as I hate wasting stuff.
OP
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perldog007
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I am starting out with Pyrodex because somebody gave me a pound for some kilts i've lost too much weight to wear anymore...
Certainly nothing wrong with that. Use what you like for the reasons you see fit. Diversity is a nice thing!
I'd certainly like to see some more chronograph results with current Pyrodex P. Maybe it's more potent these days. Or maybe it has something to do with compression. I was certainly surprised by OYE's results. Looking over the chronograph results from poconoshooting I see similar results in that Pryrodex P gives velocities between that of standard Goex and Triple 7. But his 40 grn charge with a .457" ball only produced 1052 fps.
I'd certainly like to see some more chronograph results with current Pyrodex P. Maybe it's more potent these days. Or maybe it has something to do with compression. I was certainly surprised by OYE's results. Looking over the chronograph results from poconoshooting I see similar results in that Pryrodex P gives velocities between that of standard Goex and Triple 7. But his 40 grn charge with a .457" ball only produced 1052 fps.
Crawdad1
Member
So for a hunting load stay with either the Trip 7 or Swiss or Olde Eynsford then you'll have the velocity you need. For anything larger than small game/varmints I wouldn't attempt a shot over 25 yards. But you'll have enough muzzle energy.
OYE's numbers look good too. That gives about modern day .45 Colt performance. I wouldn't want too much less than that, but if you can put it where it needs to go that's enough. It ought to give passthroughs on a broadside shot, and may very well go nose to tail through an adult hog.
Though a .50 cal may be just a little more mass than a .45 pistol's ball, they are known to give complete passthroughs or found on the offside under the skin at 100-125 yds where they only have about 350 ft/lbs or so. I like a little extra oomph if I can have it without losing accuracy though. And I'll take a WFN too...
Though a .50 cal may be just a little more mass than a .45 pistol's ball, they are known to give complete passthroughs or found on the offside under the skin at 100-125 yds where they only have about 350 ft/lbs or so. I like a little extra oomph if I can have it without losing accuracy though. And I'll take a WFN too...
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perldog007
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I got into rifle/handgun because in some places it's legal to carry a .22 rifle for squirrels and a handgun that can harvest 'big game' ( black bear, white tail ). I have read accounts of North Woodsmen carrying .22 pistols to compliment their heavy rifles.
I like the .45 Colt in the Mid Atlantic region. I would feel 'safe' such as it is with a round ball at 1000 fps, that would do smaller jobs than my 30/30 or a smoke pole of .50 or better. I was thinking conversion cylinder for inclement weather but so far all I've done is buy a full flap holster and mink oil it along those lines.
Reading what Kaido wrote and the accuracy reported from Pietta rifling I'm going to learn to love round ball performance. I will look at building a Walker kit from Uberti so I can go ahead and deal with the loading lever and cap fragment issues whilst gluing it together.
I'll try some conicals and see what happens, If it can be accurate ( minute of beer can ) at even fifty feet that could be a help in some spots, just a bonus. .
The round ball performance is really what I got the NMA clone for. Same same the 1851. But we all love versatility in our toys.
I'll blast those Keith slugs out of my Smitty.
I like the .45 Colt in the Mid Atlantic region. I would feel 'safe' such as it is with a round ball at 1000 fps, that would do smaller jobs than my 30/30 or a smoke pole of .50 or better. I was thinking conversion cylinder for inclement weather but so far all I've done is buy a full flap holster and mink oil it along those lines.
Reading what Kaido wrote and the accuracy reported from Pietta rifling I'm going to learn to love round ball performance. I will look at building a Walker kit from Uberti so I can go ahead and deal with the loading lever and cap fragment issues whilst gluing it together.
I'll try some conicals and see what happens, If it can be accurate ( minute of beer can ) at even fifty feet that could be a help in some spots, just a bonus. .
The round ball performance is really what I got the NMA clone for. Same same the 1851. But we all love versatility in our toys.
I'll blast those Keith slugs out of my Smitty.
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perldog007
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Anyone tried this mold with Pietta Rifling?
I like the looks of this .. anyone tried it?
https://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=13061&osCsid=igbp12pecghtgjuio9t26rsp14
I like the looks of this .. anyone tried it?
https://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=13061&osCsid=igbp12pecghtgjuio9t26rsp14
Looks like the Lee conical mold to me. If so they work well in my Pietta Remingtons. The sights on mine were set up for them if used in the 6 o'clock
position at 25 yards. We sometimes do a little shooting at 75 - 100 yds. Never much luck with the .454 RB much past 75 yds. We get several hits at 100 yds with the 200 gr. conicals. You can pick up those about anywhere, even new on ebay. OYE
position at 25 yards. We sometimes do a little shooting at 75 - 100 yds. Never much luck with the .454 RB much past 75 yds. We get several hits at 100 yds with the 200 gr. conicals. You can pick up those about anywhere, even new on ebay. OYE
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perldog007
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