Load data help.. Please read. No disrespect to Missouri Bullet Company.

[Eb1]

I have tried 50 rounds of the best shooting load from my gun, and the best I could get was 4.5" group at 15 yards. I am throwing in the towel with this combo, and going with a jacketed bullet with a different powder. Probably W296 or something comparable for my hunting load. Unless someone can recommend another powder for lead that will get me up around 1300+ fps. It isn't that the bullet is bad. It is very good bullet, and hasn't leaded my barrel at all. Either with hot or puff loads. Thumbs up for Missouri Bullet Company. I will be buying from them again.
I am just not getting the results that I am wanting for a hunting load with 2400 and this bullet. I thought I was, but now after a long 50 round run. I am less than enthused.

Any recommendations for a .44 Magnum hunting load for my 5.5" SBH?

I am really impressed with Trail Boss and the 240 grain Missouri Bullet Company LSWC. I posted in the Trail Boss thread a pic of a 50 round target at 15 yards. I will post it here too.

 

[Eb1]

Changed thread title. I felt it came off as a disrespect to a very good bullet maker, and I wanted to clarify my post. Missouri Bullet Company will be my main bullet purchasing company for lead bullets. I have not experienced leading at all with this bullet at up to 1250 fps, and probably close to 1300. I just cannot get 2400 and this bullet to work good enough for me to use it for hunting with confidence.

Will using W296 or H110 be to hot for the LSWC?

 

[LiveLife]

Eb1, first of all, what powder charge are you using? Since you posted you got satisfactory shot groups with Trail Boss, perhaps it may be your powder/charge?

If your shot groups were smaller with another powder using the same bullet, I would work with the powder/charge before considering changing the bullet.

 

[TonyAngel]

For what it's worth, I was looking for a powder to load some .357 for my Black Hawk. After many recommendations I ordered up a couple of pounds of 2400. I'm using MBC 158gr LSWC bullets. My results were the same as yours. I went back to AA #9 and am getting much better results. Nothing scientific about what I'm saying. It was just my experience.

 

[Walkalong]

Another AA #9 fan. Bullets fit the throats well? Sometimes a gun just doesn't like a certain bullet as well.

 

[kestak]

Greetings,

My wife shoots a LOT of 44 magnums hard cast and FMJ SP. I mean A LOT!
We have 3 44 mags revolvers with one scoped.

If we talk about pure velocity, H110 is the winner.

If we talk about tiny groups:
- We found out H110 does not give very good results pass 25 yards.
- #9 gives good results.
- Ramshot Enforcer gives the best results in the scope super redhawk but not in the blackhawks.

We shoot all our 44 mags from Ruger revolvers. Those are built like tanks. I am not including my powder loads because you should work from the lower to the higher charge for your gun.

Thank you

 

[Eb1]

@bds, I ran the spectrum. I tried start to max, and then some. I took the most promising, and loaded 50 rounds. Took them today, and they just didn't give me the accuracy.
Yes, Trail Boss was a success. well at least for me. I put 50 rounds into that target, and to be honest. I am happy for 15 yards plinking. Not one of the TB loads were weighed. They were dipped charged using a 1.6cc Lee Dipper. I love those things sometimes. The dippers simplify loading practice ammo.

@TonyAngel, I was advised to get AA#9, but it is a mystery powder around here. Yes, you can get #5, #7 and all the #'s you want except #9. I really would like to give it a try. I am aiming for 1300 fps or there 'bouts for a woods/hunting load for deer and piggies.

I do have good/promising loadings with 2400. I have the 270 grain Speer GDFP @ about 1000 fps. That would be a good load for hunting. I feel it would.
I have a box of 240 .430 XTPs. I am loading again tonight, and will load up a few with 20 grains 2400 to see how they shoot. I have shot the XTPs with 10.2 grains Unique, and well it was okay, but shot 3 to 4 inches offhand at 15 yards. I should be able to shoot 1.5" or so at 15 yards.. I do with every other handgun I own.

Walkalong, it was you, I believe that recommended AA#9, and I looked everywhere. No, go locally. I would hate to order 8# of AA#9, and then it shoot bad.

I think the boolits fit the throat well. If I posted a pic could you guys tell me if hit does or doesn't? I am a novice at the lead boolit shooting.

So you guys think the Trail Boss target is okay? I shot in a hurry. Without being weighed I think that 11 out of 50 not in the group is pretty darn good.

Walkalong, I might drive to Alabama to get some AA#9.

 

[kestak]

Greetings,

Taken from Ramshot load guide. With Enforcer, they can get with all weight of Lead bullets to 1300 FT/sec. I get a lot more than that with H110 with a 240 grains bullet...

http://www.ramshot.com/powders/

44 Remington Magnum
Barrel: 8.275" ■ Twist: 1-20" ■ Primer: FED 155 ■ Bullet Dia.: .429"
True Blue 180 SIE JHC 14.9 1,476 16.5 1,640 33,800 1.590
True Blue 200 HDY HP XTP 14.0 1,368 15.5 1,520 34,500 1.595
True Blue 240 NOS JSP 11.9 1,188 13.2 1,320 34,200 1.595
Enforcer 180 SIE JHC 24.3 1,683 27.0 1,870 32,510 1.581
Enforcer 240 NOS JSP 19.8 1,368 22.0 1,520 35,600 1.590
Enforcer 300 HDY HP XTP 16.2 1,170 18.0 1,300 35,500 1.580
Lead Bullets
True Blue 255 CP WFNPB 11.1 1,100 12.3 1,222 35,200 1.605
True Blue 275 CP WFNPB 10.8 1,076 12.0 1,195 33,200 1.635
True Blue 300 LC TC 10.1 1,031 11.2 1,145 32,470 1.590
True Blue 320 CP WNGC 9.7 972 10.8 1,080 32,500 1.695
Enforcer 200 MCB RN FP 22.6 1,500 25.1 1,667 26,040 1.565
Enforcer 255 CP WFNGC 18.5 1,285 20.6 1,428 26,110 1.610
Enforcer 300 CP WFNGC 16.7 1,225 18.5 1,361 32,750 1.590
Enforcer 310 OT WNFP 16.5 1,171 18.3 1,301 28,210 1.635
Enforcer 320 CP WLNGC 16.4 1,179 18.2 1,310 32,280 1.695
Barnes XPB Bullets
Enforcer 200 BAR XPB 20.3 1,428 22.5 1,587 32,712 1.591
Enforcer 225 BAR XPB 18.0 1,274 20.0 1,416 35,728 1.604

 

[243winxb]

44 Magnum

CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information. 250gr lswc, WW296-24gr, WLP, Win or Rem brass. 1339fps average. S&W M29 8 3/8 " bbl. Mag na ported. Start at 23.0grs.

 

[Eb1]

I have had such good luck with TAC in .223, I don't know why I did not think to try that brand in the 44 Mag. Might just do that.

 

[Eb1]

Without spending money I have started a tray of 50 rounds that will be made up of Winchester brass, Hornady 240 XTP .430, CCI 300 primers, and Alliant 2400.

Here is my load range:

Start = 17.4 grains
Max = 21.2 grains

I am hoping to find good accuracy around 20.5 for close to 1300 fps or a little more.

 

[LiveLife]

@bds, I ran the spectrum. I tried start to max, and then some. I took the most promising, and loaded 50 rounds. Took them today, and they just didn't give me the accuracy.
Yes, Trail Boss was a success. well at least for me. I put 50 rounds into that target, and to be honest. I am happy for 15 yards plinking. Not one of the TB loads were weighed. They were dipped charged using a 1.6cc Lee Dipper. I love those things sometimes. The dippers simplify loading practice ammo.

Eb1, by chance, did you use the Lee dipper for 2400 also? If so, some powders are much more sensitive to variance in charge weight as you approach the near max load. I would hand weigh the next batch of test loads to see if that variable is eliminated while everything else remains the same.

If you used powder throw for 2400, not sure how well it meters. You could weigh some of the thrown charges to see how accurate the charges were.

 

[zxcvbob]

Do you have any Blue Dot? I bought some to use in .357 Magnum and hated it. I used up the last of it in hot .45 Colt loads for a Ruger Bisley and it worked great there. Wish I had given up on the .357 sooner so I would've had more Blue Dot for the .45

16.5 grains (that's what I was using with 250 and 255 grain SWC's) should give you just over 1300 fps in your .44 Magnum with 240's.

13 grains of Power Pistol should doit too (on paper anyway) and give you less unburnt powder, but I haven't actually tried Power Pistol yet so I probably shouldn't recommend it.

Herco is a good powder with cast bullets, and a maximum load of Herco might get you 1300+ but you'll have to look that one up yourself because it's a max. (it'll be 12-ish)

 

[Eb1]

No, weighed each load. I have been loading for years and years. Only dip practice ammo. Thought I made that clear.

I love those things sometimes. The dippers simplify loading practice ammo.

Trust me. 2400 and this bullet and my gun doesn't work together. Thus I was starting a discussion for alternatives with the LSWC, and not rework a load that doesn't work i my revolver, but I think W296 or H110 will be to hot with lead without a GC, and AA#9 is not available locally. I am novice to the lead scene though. So I might be wrong about pushing the LSWC that hard with W296 and H110.

So for now I will do a ladder loading of 2400 and the XTP .430 240 grain to see what that gives me. If that fails. I will buy a box of factory, and try to get a baseline for the revolver. This revolver hasn't had any factory through it, and I hope to never have to put any through it. I have a few guns that have never seen factory ammo. I load for 5 calibers now, and they are all pretty much tack drivers.

.223 (.25" at 100 all day)
9mm (2" off hand at 25 yards easy)
30-30 (under an inch at 100 yards when I am on)
.32 H&R Magnum (25 yards from my stubby will shoot all in the 10 ring)
.30-06 (1" at 100 all day)
All Handloads, All the time.

Do not load for my .25-06. Winchester Supreme 115 grain Ballistic Tip is just to good from my rifle. I don't think I could do better. Bought the rifle got in the truck went to the range and was hunting within 4 hours of purchase. Did not have time to develop a load for the gun. Just grabbed a couple boxes off the shelve, and I guess I got lucky.
Plus I don't shoot it for fun. I shoot it to put food on the table.

 

[LiveLife]

Eb1, hope you didn't take offense. I was trying to cover all the basics, you know.

If you are looking for hunting accuracy, looks like you may be looking at another powder.

For the price of box of jacketed bullets and factory ammo, won't another pound or two of powder be cheaper?

If you find the powder that gives you the accuracy, you could always use the 2400 for plinking load.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm going to go a little old skool on you here... Since you can't find any #9 I want to suggest trying IMR4227 in your 44 Mag loads. That powder won't give you quite the velocity W296/H110 will but it's close. It's also less sensitive to slight charge weight changes. I think you might like that powder. It's been used for a long time in the 44 Magnum but it's now overlooked as outdated.

 

[Eb1]

I am not going to dump the 2400. I am trying it with other bullets...
Practice ammo has been loaded in stone. Trail Boss... I think it is awesome,and with the dippers quick and easy to load a bunch with the LSWC it is a great round.

Pound of powder = $26 or so (but can't find the AA#9 here) if ordered pay $25 bucks hazmat fee

Box of factory ammo $35 bucks for 50 rounds or $25 for 20. Trying to avoid this issue, but if 2400 and the XTP do not work out, I will have to baseline the revolver with a factory loading of some kind. Probably Winchester or Remington of 240 grain weight to make sure the revolver can hold a group at hunting velocity.

Either way spit in one hand _ 4!+ in the other. Cost is the same. Sitting on 4 lbs Unique, 8 lbs H4895, 2 lbs H335, 4 lbs VV N120, 9 oz Trail Boss, and other rifle powder. The only powder I want to buy now is AA#9, and I found a place in AR that sells it. I will take the Harley for a nice 2 hour ride to get it later in the month.

For now it is shoot up the 2400 in a ladder test of the 44 bullets I have on hand, and report back on the progress. I will have a report in a few days. I am hoping to find that 2400 comes around with the XTP at 20.5 or 21 grains. That will give me the velocity I want, and I really hope accuracy is there as well, but if not. Development continues, but I will shoot some factory to verify if the revolver will hold a group. Looking at the TB loads I shot today, I think it does hold a group. We'll see.

 

[Eb1]

@ArchAngelCD, hmm... let me go to data.hodgdon.com and check out some velocity/pressure charts. Thanks for the tip.

240 GR. LSWC CAST IMR IMR 4227 .430" 1.620" 22.0C 1310 33,300 CUP

Might have to check that out.. I know where some IMR 4227 is right now.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm always happy to pass on any info I have.

 

[zxcvbob]

If you have Unique already, try 10, 10.5, and 11 grains of it with those cast bullets. You won't get to 1300 with it, but I doubt any animal in North America will be able to tell the difference between 1200 and 1300 fps -- except maybe a headshot on a bison. I think you'll really like 10.0 grain.

 

[Eb1]

zxcvbob, I have tried Unique first. That lead me to 2400. Thanks for the info. The reason I bought Trail Boss is because I did not like the Unique loadings. The average fps with Unique was 1120 fps using 10 grains.

I just stayed up, and loaded 15 rounds with 20 grains 2400 and a 240 grain XTP. I will load 20.5 in the morning (15), and 15 of 21.0 grains 2400. If those do not shoot well. I will go to 19.5 down to 17.5 grains, but like I was saying I have a goal now of 1300 or just above. I know that my gun might not like that velocity, but until all resources are exhausted then I will not be happy. Might as well shoot up the 2400 with what I have available to me as far as bullets.

Also tried 10 grains and below of Unique with a Speer 240 grain HP, and that load did not do well. The only success I have ever had in Unique is in my 9mm... Can't beat it. I love it in that caliber.
Tried 10 grains to 10.2 with the XTP of Unique, and that did not shoot well either.

I might go for another round just to have more to shoot. Shooting is fun, and another round of (10) using 10.0 grains of Unique or 10.5 - 11.0 will not take long to load. Gimme a few days, and I will report back with a few loadings.

You are right about the 100 fps spread. I doubt any of the pigs or deer will be able to tell, and if I do find a load or 1200 then that is what I will have to use. After all accuracy trumps velocity 99.99999% of the time. I have a thread in hunting mentioning if people think 1250 will be a good hunting load, and the consensus is, Yes

 

[243winxb]

44 Magnum

I think W296 or H110 will be to hot with lead without a GC,

I have been shooting plain base home cast for year with WW296 & WLP. Very accurate out of S&W & Ruger SBH. The pressure can spike if you up the charge to much at a time. 2400 never shot well for me with cast. IMR 4227 is a great powder, over looked as said above, but better with jacketed 180gr bullets in my testing years ago. Light load , 10gr of Alliant Unique with 250gr cast, very accurate. Having tested H110 & WW296, they are NOT the same powder,IMO, at least years ago. Click photos for larger view.

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[CraigC]

16.5 grains (that's what I was using with 250 and 255 grain SWC's) should give you just over 1300 fps in your .44 Magnum with 240's.

That's impossible. 17.0gr gives 1200fps in the .44Spl so you're not gonna get 100fps more out of less powder but with more capacity. I doubt it will break 1000fps.

10.0gr Unique is my favored load for all my .44Mag's. I'm not sure why you "didn't like it" but you don't need blistering velocities to take game with a 240gr SWC. Anything over 1200fps is just flattening trajectory anyway. Whatever is most accurate between 9.0gr and 11.0gr would make a fine hunting load.

Do you do all your load testing offhand? Maybe you should be testing your loads from the bench to remove all human error possible. I imagine you're doing a lot of tail chasing.

H110 and Winchester 296 are indeed the same, identical powder.

 

[zxcvbob]

That's impossible. 17.0gr gives 1200fps in the .44Spl so you're not gonna get 100fps more out of less powder but with more capacity. I doubt it will break 1000fps.

Max load of Blue Dot in .44 Magnum according to Alliant is 16.6 grains, and they say that gives 1475 fps but I think that's optimistic. Max load in a .44Spl is about 9.5

 

[Hammerdown77]

Member Flatgate over at rugerforum.com is a proponent of IMR 4759 for the .44 mag, and other users have also claimed exceptional results using his data. Haven't used it myself, though.