Load developement procedure

[Varminterror]

They must come up with new ideas to have a show.

Hornady & Applied Ballistics have been making a lot of content without any new ideas - AB is even publishing new BOOKS of science - only relying on the premise of evaluating all of the pseudoscientific ideas RELOADERS come up with. It’s much, much easier to prove a null set, a non-result, than to prove a truly new hypothesis. One path involves designing new science, and further sufficient experimentation which proves to support the hypothesis - but physics is an old, and slow moving science, and ballistics aren’t the forefront of its science for many generations. The other path just involves applying established and proven science to evaluate the validity of broadly accepted but otherwise half-baked ideas.

Mark Twain is attributed with having said, “It’s not what you know that gets you into trouble, it’s what you know for sure, which just ain’t so.” The podcast in question and multiple other episodes, and a half dozen of the Applied Ballistic podcasts - AND about half of their newest volume of Modern Advancements in Long Range Shooting only exist to lend proof to show a lot of folks - myself included - that what they know just ain’t so.

 

[Walkalong]

Mark Twain is attributed with having said, “It’s not what you know that gets you into trouble, it’s what you know for sure, which just ain’t so.”

Big Mark Twain fan here.

 

[Varminterror]

Big Mark Twain fan here.

Swallowing the rim fire tuner results from Vol 3 was a tough pill for me. I’d sworn by rimfire tuners for a long, long time. But it just ain’t so.

 

[JFrank]

My father use to say that MT once wrote that when he was a teenager he couldn’t believe how stupid his father was, then writing again around twenty one that it was amazing what his father had learned in those few short years.

Can’t swear to it but it sounded good..

 

[irishlad]

Circling the wagons a bit - back to the OP’s expressed confusion or frustration:

Many, many reloaders put in EXTREME effort to make their lives more complicated. So many folks chase 3 shots here and there and assume differences in group sizes are meaningful - when they aren’t. And then those folks are surprised when their load throws flyers, and they go back to the bench and think of some different knob to tweak, which doesn’t really tweak anything - but on the target, they see ONE small group and assume it must be meaningful. And then back at the range, they find some flyer and wonder what went wrong… all the while, there hasn’t been any valid difference between their results, but they convinced themselves to weight sort bullets and cases, and that they need to load down to the Kernel…

But in reality, it really isn’t so difficult to make loads which shoot well. If we imagine microns make a difference, it will LOOK like they do, but we’re chasing smoke. If we just let the rifles shoot, they will - and the road to get there is really, really smooth, and really, really short. If we need to shoot sub-1/4moa, then we can worry about more than 3 things, but until you’re reliably printing 1/4moa, chasing smoke won’t shrink groups.

The needs of PRS shooters vs pure accuracy shooters overlap, but are different.

Some loads shoot very well over a wide range of good barrels.

No, loads don't always work when changing barrels.

Yes, your old load might shoot great in the new barrel.

If you are shooting for pure accuracy, long range F class, Benchrest etc, you'll have to fine tune each barrel, the competition is that stiff.
(Assuming you can shoot at that level)

Bergers outshoot ELDs. ELDs are cheaper and popular. The better PRS shooter will beat your eyes out with a lessor bullet. (Kind of like pool sticks)

Ain't life fun.

Great video. Thanks . Guess I’m going to have to get some Bergers

 

[Walkalong]

Swallowing the rim fire tuner results from Vol 3 was a tough pill for me. I’d sworn by rimfire tuners for a long, long time. But it just ain’t so.

I left the one on my 18" Vudoo because it helps the balance, but I couldn't prove it made it shoot consistently better.

 

[Varminterror]

I left the one on my 18" Vudoo because it helps the balance, but I couldn't prove it made it shoot consistently better.

THAT I can dig. And that WAS an unexpected observation mentioned in the AB book: more muzzle weight = better precision. Balance or harmonics, doesn’t really matter. I’ve shot a lot of great groups with my magnetospeed mounted, and many, many more with my suppressors mounted (cans only reduce precision on Call of Duty, not in real life!!). But I haven’t committed to the tuner weight for my PRS rifles just for that.

I AM really tempted to shoot matches with suppressor again in 2024 though, only for the weight.

 

[OFFGRID]

Circling the wagons a bit - back to the OP’s expressed confusion or frustration:

Many, many reloaders put in EXTREME effort to make their lives more complicated. So many folks chase 3 shots here and there and assume differences in group sizes are meaningful - when they aren’t. And then those folks are surprised when their load throws flyers, and they go back to the bench and think of some different knob to tweak, which doesn’t really tweak anything - but on the target, they see ONE small group and assume it must be meaningful. And then back at the range, they find some flyer and wonder what went wrong… all the while, there hasn’t been any valid difference between their results, but they convinced themselves to weight sort bullets and cases, and that they need to load down to the Kernel…

But in reality, it really isn’t so difficult to make loads which shoot well. If we imagine microns make a difference, it will LOOK like they do, but we’re chasing smoke. If we just let the rifles shoot, they will - and the road to get there is really, really smooth, and really, really short. If we need to shoot sub-1/4moa, then we can worry about more than 3 things, but until you’re reliably printing 1/4moa, chasing smoke won’t shrink groups.

It really is quite a rabbit hole. Kinda like the guys on the pod casts say and some of it just seems far fetched while other bits make a little sense.

Then again every once in a while reality sets in and i realize Im a hunter (not even a very good one) just looking to put meat on the table and most of my shots are under 150 yards. In reality 2 moa would probably be just fine.
For some reason marketing and media keep roping me and other guys into the high bc, sub moa stuff. I even found myself buying some ELD-X because "With todays powders and high bc bullets the old 30-06 can do better than ever before" LOL! You never know when you may have to take a 500 yard shot at a whitetail in 20 mph wind! So i loaded some up to around 2850 fps, acording to data, seated 25k off the lands and got a very average grouping from the old hunting rifle....that way they can sit in a box until one day when i get a chrono to check speed so i can use a ballistics calculator and THEN find a place where i can take some long shots on paper for fun....some day.

Still its nice to listen to people talk over my head because every now and then i learn a little something. haha

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Just watched parts of Hornady podcast #61. Interesting, but sorry, not my cup of tea. I’ll read the book.

I’m waiting for the Cliff Notes.