Pistol Load Development Methods

[Hondo 60]

to find what is most accurate.

That has ALWAYS been my goal.
I don't care about "power factor".

I start at minimum, sometimes going no further if I get 10 rounds in a ragged hole.
Add .2 & keep going til I get a ragged hole, or very close.

I don't use a ransom rest, that's why I use 10 rounds.
If I'm off on a couple of rounds, I still have 8 more.

Sometimes my 1st powder choice is great, sometimes it stinks.

If it's bad, I just try another powder.

 

[kidneyboy]

I shot this today. Extreme 115gr FP, Win brass, CCI primer, 1.10 OAL, W231, 20yds, 5 shot groups
upper left 4.4gr
upper right 4.5gr
lower left 4.6gr
center 4.7gr


I'll be making up about 20 of the 4.6gr group (and shoot from a better rest).
This has been my regular procedure for working up a round.

 

[Dudedog]

Once you get close to what you want for a charge, lets say start is 4 and max is 5gr of powder Y and 4.5 shoots best for you, try
both increasing and decreasing the OAL a little. (assuming your not at MAX charge)
In general my pistols seem to like shorter a little better, but on occasion they like longer better.
Bullets make a difference as well. I have had better results with 124gr RMR FMJ or MPR JHP from Rocky Mountain Reloading than say with a 124 Xtreme plated. (RMRs plated shot better for me as well)
My guns seem to like 124s better, some seem to prefer 115s.

Sometimes my 1st powder choice is great, sometimes it stinks.

Been there

Also some guns just seem to like some powders better, they all just have a mind of their own.
If you haven't yet it is worth trying (in a range for 9mm) a faster powder say Sport Pistol, HP38/W231, AA#2 etc. and a medium powder WSF, Universal, Unique, etc, and something slower BE86, CFE-P for example if you are just after "fun" ammo.
If your after max velocity then things on the slower burning side are better.
For light-medium "fun"loads sometimes keeping things subsonic say below or at around 1050fps helps.

My favorite match load at the moment is 4.4gr of WSF, RMR 124gr MPR JHP @ 1.08,
comes in around 1030-1040 fps.

I want most of my practice ammo to be about the same as match ammo about 128-130 PF. (I do load Full power stuff for practice as well)
So usually I am working in a limited area of the charge range, but I usually step 2/10 of a gr and do a ladder around the range I am after, then 1/10. Test shorter and longer OAL.
While I am at it even though I know it maybe more velocity than I am looking for I will ladder min to MAX at .2 as well.
I have 5 different 9mms.
What works really well in one generally works well in the others, 2 of them sort of agree on what works best, the others prefer something different for best,
but with a good load the shooter (me) is more of a factor, ie I can't always shoot the difference between best and good loads.
The ones the guns don't like, they just don't like and I can shoot the difference between don't like and good all the time.

Initially I usually load 15 of each, 5 to chrono and 10 to shoot two 5 round groups.
I


So after all the bla bla bla I wish I could say bullet X with powder Y at OAL Z would work best for you, but all guns are different,
and that's part of the fun of reloading, finding the one load that works best, sometimes the journey is more fun than the destination.
(and sometimes you make a wrong turn)

 

[murf]

caution: these loads are below minimum and could easily cause a bullet to be stuck in the barrel.



i don't see much difference in group size, just a lot of drop out of the 1.6 load.

murf

 

[PhillySoldier]

When testing different OAL's / seating depths, does everyone leave the same charge weight or adjust appropriately to keep same pressure / velocity? I usually see people always leaving the charges the same; which has me wondering if the resulting differences is more due to the changes in velocity/pressure than the OAL itself.

I have my next ladder test to do still but after that I would like to test the differing seating depths both with the charge remaining the same and with the charge weights being adjusted to keep the same velocity.

I have an additional test in mind after the above tests. I want to measure the differences in recoil as well as compare to see if it affects accuracy. If your familiar with a ransom rest, the gun sort of pivots on a hinge when fired. I can measure the distance from the base plate to how far back the gun is pushed. For the test I have on order now some differing weighted recoil springs (11lb, 15lb, 18lb and a dpm recoil reducer). I dont expect to see much of a difference if any but curiosity has my interest to try it.

 

[Toprudder]

For my auto-loaders, I generally pick the OAL that gives the best reliability. First, it has to plunk, I will find the longest OAL that will allow it to plunk, and then back off about 0.020". Then it has to fit the mag. Then it has to feed reliably. The last one may take a few tries, and some bullet profiles just won't work in some guns. I rarely tweak the OAL to reduce group size, for a semi-auto.

When I start working with the powder charge, it first must cycle the action. I will work up from there to the max charge looking for accuracy and felt recoil.

I rarely shoot past 10 yards with my semi-auto handguns. If I was shooting bullseye competition, I am sure I would do a lot more tweaking than I presently find necessary.

 

[jmorris]

Im not a competitor but figured this is what is most used by minor competitors for accuracy with the lightest recoil.

The powerfactor has nothing to do with accuracy, it’s more about recoil.

If your looking for top accuracy, ignore all other factors except it.

 

[PhillySoldier]

jmorris, I agree and have since changed my mind on that line of thinking. Shooting further distances with the ransom rest really showed me that wasnt the best way to go for accuracy.

 

[Blue68f100]

When testing different OAL's / seating depths, does everyone leave the same charge weight or adjust appropriately to keep same pressure / velocity? I usually see people always leaving the charges the same; which has me wondering if the resulting differences is more due to the changes in velocity/pressure than the OAL itself.

I have my next ladder test to do still but after that I would like to test the differing seating depths both with the charge remaining the same and with the charge weights being adjusted to keep the same velocity.

I have an additional test in mind after the above tests. I want to measure the differences in recoil as well as compare to see if it affects accuracy. If your familiar with a ransom rest, the gun sort of pivots on a hinge when fired. I can measure the distance from the base plate to how far back the gun is pushed. For the test I have on order now some differing weighted recoil springs (11lb, 15lb, 18lb and a dpm recoil reducer). I dont expect to see much of a difference if any but curiosity has my interest to try it.

You only want to change 1 variable at a time. The tweaking of the OAL actually changes the pressure curve ever so lightly. Adjusting in shorter increases the pressure build up faster, while lengthening it lowers it down.

 

[PhillySoldier]

Thats kinda my point, if both the OAL and the pressure have changed at the same time (thats two variables), are any differences in say POI or accuracy the result of the pressure change or the OAL change.

 

[Blue68f100]

But you only have control of the one. You only changed 1 variable. The main variable for the pressure is the powder charge.

 

[PhillySoldier]

Making the one change results in two variable differences, the differing OAL and the differing pressure. Where the opposite does have two changes that should result in one difference - just the OAL change.

Again I want to test both of these groups just to compare afterwards and see how the results may differ. Does changing the OAL result result in any benefit for pistols or is it just more the pressure/velocity difference that had an impact and couldve been achieved with the current OAL and different charge weight. Just something I thought interesting to test out in the future.

 

[kidneyboy]

Philly, I'd like to refer you to a post by Darrel at the Brian Enos forum (reloading 9mm) titled "My Procedure to ladder test loads". He covers his procedure for shortening OAL.

Here is a cut and paste of his original post -

Posted June 7


This is my procedure I use to ladder test my loads for new bullets or guns for a starting point.



First I take out the barrel and use a Hornady OAL gauge I modified a 9mm case for. I put the bullet in the case and hold the case against the chamber then push the rod on the gauge to push the bullet till it touches the rifling. I lock the rod pulled it out and measure. Then I back off ~.015” to start. If it hits the rifling at 1.117” I start at 1.100. I subtract 10% from the published maximum charge and work up 20 rounds each in .2 grain increments. So if the max is 5.0 I load 4.5, 4.7 4.9 5.2. I then shoot 2 10 shot groups over the chrono either from the bench rested on sand bags, or my Ransom rest if I have the correct inserts. I put 11 rounds in the mag and fire the first into the berm so my first shot isn’t hand cycled on my test rounds. I log everything into my spreadsheet. I don’t mix headstamps on 9mm brass I use mostly Winchester or Federal. Primers are what I have on hand either FED, CCI, Fiocchi, Winchester, or S&B. My crimp is set at .378 which I have found works best with both Jacketed and Coated bullets. I measure the group size center to center. Once I look at power factor and accuracy I pick the one that is most accurate then load a bunch up shortening the OAL by .010” on each 20. So I would load 1.100, 1.090, 1.080, and 1.070. Retest them and usually find better accuracy shorter. For example with Precision Delta 124 JHP’s I found that no matter what powder I use the best overall length for my guns with that bullet is 1.080” and that’s what I stick with. If you look at my spreadsheet you can see I tried a lot of different things over the years so do a search for Darrell and look at the spreadsheet and see if it helps you. All the load in my spreadsheet has been tested by me in my guns and my weather conditions here in south Louisiana. I try to upload an updated version every so often, current is 052818.



https://www.dropbox.com/s/of08tamxsublail/Darrell's Load Data rev 052818.xlsx?dl=0

 

[PhillySoldier]

Wow he sounds very similar to me

 

[Walkalong]

Philly, I'd like to refer you to a post by Darrel at the Brian Enos forum (reloading 9mm) titled "My Procedure to ladder test loads".

I use the best overall length for my guns

That is what I do as well with auto calibers, find an OAL that runs great and tweak from there for accuracy. Even with revolver rounds I don't tweak OAL much.

 

[vaalpens]

Philly, I'd like to refer you to a post by Darrel at the Brian Enos forum (reloading 9mm) titled "My Procedure to ladder test loads". He covers his procedure for shortening OAL.

Thanks for sharing this information and especially the spreadsheet. For me the results listed in the spreadsheet is a good barometer of what a good grouping is at 25 yards.

 

[Dudedog]

Again I want to test both of these groups just to compare afterwards and see how the results may differ. Does changing the OAL result result in any benefit for pistols or is it just more the pressure/velocity difference that had an impact and couldve been achieved with the current OAL and different charge weight. Just something I thought interesting to test out in the future.

Hard to say, Longer OAL will be slightly less vel ,shorter higher, pressures are different of course as well.
I have never taken the time to try to make the OAL change and then adjust the powder charge to get the same vel as I had before the OAL change.
Usually by the time I play with OAL I am attempting to make a good load better.
So is it the small vel change, a change in the pressure curve, or the distance from the lands the bullet starts, that makes it better or worse?
More case neck tension for more even pressures???
Might be nice to to know for sure but usually by this point the load shot as good as I am able to shoot it.

As I mentioned before my guns are usually happier with a shorter OAL than will plunk varies of course but maybe .03-.05 shorter.

 

[Bartojc]

For a semi-auto I like to find an OAL that will work and feed well for the chosen bullet. I pick a powder mostly based on what I have on hand, but sometimes I'll choose something different. I start low and work up usually .2 gr at a time. When I start I'm usually looking to get to a point where the firearm cycles reliably. From there I look for best accuracy. If I can I fire from a bag at roughly 7-10 yards. When I have a load I think is decent I'll try to reproduce it. If I can I might tweak the OAL .005 to see if it gets better or worse. If I am at or close to max load I leave OAL alone. I find more times than not I can get an acceptable load for me that is on the lower end of the range min-max so I end up with an accurate low recoil load for practice.

-Jeff

 

[murf]

and all this doesn't matter unless you use an accurate bullet. if i want the best long-range accuracy out of any of my handguns, i use hornady xtp bullets, match a powder to that bullet, adjust the oal and shoot! i'm not a hornady spokesman. i have been shooting xtps since the early ninetys and have found them to be the best accuracywise.

luck,

murf

 

[rskent]

and all this doesn't matter unless you use an accurate bullet. if i want the best long-range accuracy out of any of my handguns, i use hornady xtp bullets,

For sure XTP’s are great bullet’s. What other accurate bullets are out there?

 

[PhillySoldier]

I havent gotten to far in testing different projectiles at the longer distances with the ransom rest but my past unsupported testing definitely showed positive results w the different hornady brands xtp's, hap's and the fmj's. Definitely something i look forward to continuing to test further

 

[murf]

For sure XTP’s are great bullet’s. What other accurate bullets are out there?

i shoot a cast performance 325 grain bullet out of my 45 caliber blackhawk. it is accurate out to 440 yards (the farthest i have shot this bullet at a target).

jerry miculek used a hornady 147 grain xtp bullets to bust a balloon @ 1,000 yards with his 9mm revolver. i'm sure there are a lot more accurate bullets out there, but these actually work.



murf

 

[Dudedog]

I use a lot of 9mm bullets from Rocky Mountain Reloading.
I really like their 9mm 124gr MPR JHP.
Shoots well midrange for matches and practice. Shoots well on the top end for my "Zombie" attack loads.
Free shipping 5% discount for THR members.
Both of their new in house 124gr FMJs (RN or FN) shot really well for me to.
The MPRs are a few more $ but hey never can tell when the Zombies might attack.

My guns like 124/125s better than 115s.

I have some of their new 147gr FN FMJs but haven't had a chance to test them yet.
Great people to do business with, good prices, fast shipping.

 

[Dudedog]

PhillySoldier,
if it's legal for you to get Hollow point bullets in the mail where you are (some places it isn't)PM me and I can send you a sample of the RMR MPRs to try.

 

[PhillySoldier]

Excellent and thank you. Ill msg ya.

I went out today and ran a pretty large test ranging from 5.0 to 6.6 of power pistol and the Hornady 115 fmj's. I still gotta review all my data but it looked like the 5.8 worked the best for me