Loaded 9mm with WSF for the first time

[vaalpens]

Lately I have been trying some new powders, and one of them has been Winchester WSF.

My initial impression regarding WSF is that it seems like a light shooter, seems a bit smoky, and it is not super accurate. My initial observations could be due to where I started my load workup. It seems that my chrono numbers improved towards the end, so I'll probably load another set of test loads and see if I can reach a sweet spot.

I am not going to attribute my lack of seeing very good grouping to WSF since I have been trying to find a consistent very good grouping load in 9mm for a while now. This is probably one of those cases where I will have to buy another 9mm gun to see if my gun is maybe the issue.

Following are my first test results using WSF in 9mm:


9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: FC
COL: 1.065"
RMR, 124gr, TCFPMW, WSF, 4.2gr, FED100M
Average: 927
ES: 44
SD: 20.4
Force: 237
PF: 114
Velocities: 907, 940, 938, 903, 947
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.25"
Test Date: 11/01/2020

9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: FC
COL: 1.065"
RMR, 124gr, TCFPMW, WSF, 4.3gr, FED100M
Average: 963
ES: 36
SD: 14.5
Force: 255
PF: 119
Velocities: 973, 976, 959, 940, 968
Grouping @ 15yd: 2.63"
Test Date: 11/01/2020

9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: FC
COL: 1.065"
RMR, 124gr, TCFPMW, WSF, 4.4gr, FED100M
Average: 970
ES: 35
SD: 15.9
Force: 259
PF: 120
Velocities: 952, 976, 955, 982, 987
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.74"
Test Date: 11/01/2020

9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: FC
COL: 1.065"
RMR, 124gr, TCFPMW, WSF, 4.5gr, FED100M
Average: 996
ES: 34
SD: 15.5
Force: 273
PF: 123
Velocities: 984, 992, 980, 1014, 1011
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.68"
Test Date: 11/01/2020

9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: FC
COL: 1.065"
RMR, 124gr, TCFPMW, WSF, 4.6gr, FED100M
Average: 1015
ES: 28
SD: 11.1
Force: 284
PF: 125
Velocities: 1013, 1027, 999, 1012, 1024
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.39"
Test Date: 11/01/2020


9mm, SP2022, 3.9"
Case: FC
COL: 1.065"
RMR, 124gr, TCFPMW, WSF, 4.7gr, FED100M
Average: 1043
ES: 10
SD: 3.6
Force: 299
PF: 129
Velocities: 1038, 1048, 1044, 1042, 1043
Grouping @ 15yd: 1.43"
Test Date: 11/01/2020

 

[fxvr5]

WSF or WST?

 

[NMexJim]

You've got to dig deep to find data on WST (like this forum). Winchester discontinued WST info because it was apparently position sensitive. I have some WST I intend to use if the zombies come this way. WSF is not hard to find.

 

[vaalpens]

WSF or WST?

WSF

 

[vaalpens]

You've got to dig deep to find data on WST (like this forum). Winchester discontinued WST info because it was apparently position sensitive. I have some WST I intend to use if the zombies come this way. WSF is not hard to find.

I have some WST also, but so far only loaded it in 45acp. I will try it in 9mm once I have found some collaborating data for it.

 

[1KPerDay]

I didn’t really like WSF in 9mm either, though some swear by it. I loaded about 16 pounds of WST however.

I don’t have targets or chrono data to show for my results; WSF just didn’t seem particularly special compared to my other choices at the time.

 

[JJFitch]

WSF shines with 147 grain! Gets close to factory velocity without overpressure!

Smiles,

 

[vaalpens]

I didn’t really like WSF in 9mm either, though some swear by it. I loaded about 16 pounds of WST however.

WSF shoots well, but for now there is no indication of a possible tight group. I have been trying to find a tight grouping load in 9mm for a while, so maybe it is just my gun.

I will appreciate it if you can share some of your WST load data. You can send me a PM if you don't want to post any unpublished load data in the forum.

 

[vaalpens]

WSF shines with 147 grain! Gets to factory velocity without overpressure!

Smiles,

Interesting. I have some RMR 147gr bullet which I can possibly try. I like the 147gr bullet in 357sig, so I'm not sure if I want to waste any in 9mm.

 

[Charlie98]

I will try it in 9mm once I have found some collaborating data for it.

Love me some WST... in the .45ACP. I am not a fan of it in 9mm, however, even with data posted here about it. There is a reason they pulled the published data, and my thought is there are far better powders with published data for the 9mm.

I've just set the press up to load my last box of 147's... but I'm using SportPistol, not WST, and certainly not TiteGroup.

Vaalpens, what firearm are you using?

 

[vaalpens]

Vaalpens, what firearm are you using?

In 9mm I have a SIG SP2022 with about 7k rounds through it. Once this madness is over, I'll probably find a P229 or P226 in 9mm, since my P229's in .40 and 357sig are very accurate.

 

[fxvr5]

WSF

Might want to check your first post.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Back in the late ‘90’s Atlanta Arms had the contract for the US Army AMU to load their ammo for the 9mm. I was told by an employee that the load was 5.2gr of WSF under a Hornady 115gr XTP. I loaded and shot a bit of this. Also, Anderson Arms of South Carolina used essentially the same. Both used private stamped Starline brass.
Anderson used 4.3gr of WSF with their 147gr loads. I also tried these, but my S&W Performance Ctr guns with their 1/18 -3/4” Twist did(do) better with 115gr bullets.
Like most spherical powders, I found that accuracy tended to improve as max loads were approached.
I’ve tried a LOT of new-comer powders but still have yet to find one that beats a 115gr Sierra JHP over a max charge of Bullseye...

 

[vaalpens]

Might want to check your first post.

Thanks for catching my mistake!

I have now corrected my first post.

 

[lordpaxman]

In 9mm I have a SIG SP2022 with about 7k rounds through it. Once this madness is over, I'll probably find a P229 or P226 in 9mm, since my P229's in .40 and 357sig are very accurate.

Any reason to get another gun is a good one. Depending on the application you may want to consider the P320 X5 Legion. I have a 226 and 229 but am getting to know the 320 really well.
I do have a match load worked up with WSF and 124’s, they group well enough for me in the 226. I prefer SP, Target, N320 or SP over WSF for the match loads though. Good luck.

 

[Charlie98]

In 9mm I have a SIG SP2022 with about 7k rounds through it. Once this madness is over, I'll probably find a P229 or P226 in 9mm, since my P229's in .40 and 357sig are very accurate.

3.9" barrel... I wouldn't expect supreme accuracy out of it, much like I don't out of my 3.6" and 3.1" Kahr barrels... and they are good barrels, too. It's a service pistol... expect service pistol accuracy. That is not to say you need to put up with shotgun patterns, either, but if it prints close to what factory ammo does, I'd call it a win.

 

[1KPerDay]

WSF shoots well, but for now there is no indication of a possible tight group. I have been trying to find a tight grouping load in 9mm for a while, so maybe it is just my gun.

I will appreciate it if you can share some of your WST load data. You can send me a PM if you don't want to post any unpublished load data in the forum.

Sending PM

 

[Dudedog]

Sorry WSF didn't work out for your 9mm, my 9s happen to like it but guns are like women, no telling what they will like.
(To be fair, women will probably say guns are like men, they just don't know how to behave)

There are listed loads for it in .357 Sig, .40 and .45.
I would say it is worth a try in .357 Sig and .40 but I don't own either of those so no idea if it works well there or not.

Worked ok for me in .45 but I prefer something a little faster there (HP38)

 

[Dudedog]

Vallpens you need a 9mm 1911
(surrender to the dark side of the force)

Both of these I have shoot really well for me. (if I do my part....)
1st one has about 55k rounds on it, 2nd is a spare with only about 200.

https://www.springfield-armory.com/...ed-target-9mm-handgun-stainless-ca-compliant/
https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/43760/springfield+armory+pi9134lp+1911+loaded+target+9+1+9mm+5"+package (out of stock though)

 

[LiveLife]

You've got to dig deep to find data on WST (like this forum)

I like WST for 9mm as it produced smallest groups with IMR Target nipping at its heels.

Here's our 9mm WST thread with published load data - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...er-target-published-load-data-for-9mm.870180/

 

[Mr. Zorg]

I ordered some WSF this weekend with intentions of trying it in 38 Super Auto +P (not for competition but just for personal enjoyment). I plan to see how far I can work up to some of the load data at this link (which I found via a thread on THR).

https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/super-powders-for-the-38-super/99160

It's not 9X19mm or 357 SIG but I'm OK with that.

 

[vaalpens]

Sorry WSF didn't work out for your 9mm, my 9s happen to like it but guns are like women, no telling what they will like.
(To be fair, women will probably say guns are like men, they just don't know how to behave)

There are listed loads for it in .357 Sig, .40 and .45.
I would say it is worth a try in .357 Sig and .40 but I don't own either of those so no idea if it works well there or not.

Worked ok for me in .45 but I prefer something a little faster there (HP38)

This was just the first time I tried WSF. I will try it in all my cartridges I load, and maybe even go back to 9mm with a different bullet or gun if things improve. I can understand why shooters like WSF since across the range I loaded the results were very consistent. I did not give me the accuracy I was looking for, but you can load it to the velocity/PF you are looking for, and still see that same accuracy.

Vallpens you need a 9mm 1911
(surrender to the dark side of the force)

Both of these I have shoot really well for me. (if I do my part....)
1st one has about 55k rounds on it, 2nd is a spare with only about 200.

https://www.springfield-armory.com/...ed-target-9mm-handgun-stainless-ca-compliant/
https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/43760/springfield+armory+pi9134lp+1911+loaded+target+9+1+9mm+5"+package (out of stock though)

I have been looking at the Springfield Armory 1911, but it is SA only. I prefer a DA/SA, so it will probably be between a P229, P226 or maybe a CZ 75. The CZ's have some good ergonomics.

 

[vaalpens]

I like WST for 9mm as it produced smallest groups with IMR Target nipping at its heels.

Here's our 9mm WST thread with published load data - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...er-target-published-load-data-for-9mm.870180/

Thanks for posting the link. I went through the post and have some idea where to start. I also checked the WST fill against the seating depth of the RMR 124gr match winner bullet. It looks like I should be able to load max 4.5gr or 4.6gr with the test I did. With 4.6gr the bullet maybe touch the powder, but with 4.5gr it will not.

 

[LiveLife]

Thanks for posting the link. I went through the post and have some idea where to start. I also checked the WST fill against the seating depth of the RMR 124gr match winner bullet. It looks like I should be able to load max 4.5gr or 4.6gr with the test I did. With 4.6gr the bullet maybe touch the powder, but with 4.5gr it will not.

Just to be sure, I was posting regarding W Super Target and not W Super Field.

When I shot USPSA in the 90s, I used WSF for major power factor at mid to high range load data and used W231/HP-38 for minor power factor loads.

I did use WSF for loading duplicate "practice" factory Speer Gold Dot HP/Remington Golden Saber JHP for higher velocities WSF produced and in recent years replaced with BE-86 for great accuracy and even higher velocities.

 

[Hondo 60]

This is probably one of those cases where I will have to buy another 9mm gun to see if my gun is maybe the issue.

Dang, don't you just hate when that happens?