I know if your rifle is chambered in .223 Rem you should't shoot 5.56 cartridges in it. My question regards using once fired .5.56 brass. Will the .223 dies (FL sizing) sufficiently reshape the dimensional differences between the cases to make it safe to use?
Loading for a .223 bolt rifle...
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beatledog7
Member
The differences are more inside than outside. Your 223 dies will work just fine resizing brass that's marked 5.56 or any other military 223/5.56 brass. Just moderate your powder charges a smidge to account for the slightly smaller interior volume.
Have you noticed that there are no 5.56 dies?
Have you noticed that there are no 5.56 dies?
Think he was asking if it is SAFE to shoot 5.56 re-loads in a Barrel marked for .223
I'd still say NO... But there are experts here that will know for sure...
Resizing is just the neck and throught
Anyways im not sure... but would wait until someone Knows for sure
I'd still say NO... But there are experts here that will know for sure...
Resizing is just the neck and throught
Anyways im not sure... but would wait until someone Knows for sure
balderclev
Member
I shoot military LC .556 brass in my bolt 223. FL resizing will make them the same as 223 brass. Just remember to check case length and trim if necessary. Also remove the crimp if one exists. Load them as per recipes in your manual and you will be fine. Start low and work up as always.
Actually, I think military brass is better than commercial .223 brass.
Actually, I think military brass is better than commercial .223 brass.
I believe it would be best if you stick to .223 level loads for your bolt rifle. I have a single shot that would puncture primers when 5.56 milspec/surplus military ammo was shot in it (1 or 2 out of 20) and other pressure signs were apparent. I sent it back to the factory and they replaced the barrel and checked headspace. I keep my reloads to near starting point, .223 data, and 50 gr. bullets and get 1"-1 1/2" at about 60 yards (very good for the old guy).
This was several years ago, before the .223 vs. 5.56 issue had been reported/resolved...
FWIW; I've reloaded some .223 with 45 gr. lead bullets and some WC820 and/or Unique to about 1,800-2,000 fps, for some really fun shooting; no report, no recoil, and pretty accurate.
This was several years ago, before the .223 vs. 5.56 issue had been reported/resolved...
FWIW; I've reloaded some .223 with 45 gr. lead bullets and some WC820 and/or Unique to about 1,800-2,000 fps, for some really fun shooting; no report, no recoil, and pretty accurate.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Yes, it is perfectly safe.
When it comes to reloading, 5.56 NATO brass IS .223 Remington brass.
The dimensions are the same, and the same dies are used to resize & reload both.
The primary difference in them is in the chamber dimensions to allow for slightly looser tolerances in military weapons, and to allow for more chamber leade for long military Tracer bullets.
And 5.56 NATO is loaded to slightly higher pressure.
Which case is used has nothing to do with that.
It is a misconception that 5.56 NATO brass is thicker, or has less case capacity.
Sometimes it is, and sometimes it most assuredly isn't.
The same is not true of military 30-06 and 7.62 NATO brass, which is always thicker and does have less case capacity requiring a slight reduction in max load data.
rc
When it comes to reloading, 5.56 NATO brass IS .223 Remington brass.
The dimensions are the same, and the same dies are used to resize & reload both.
The primary difference in them is in the chamber dimensions to allow for slightly looser tolerances in military weapons, and to allow for more chamber leade for long military Tracer bullets.
And 5.56 NATO is loaded to slightly higher pressure.
Which case is used has nothing to do with that.
It is a misconception that 5.56 NATO brass is thicker, or has less case capacity.
Sometimes it is, and sometimes it most assuredly isn't.
The same is not true of military 30-06 and 7.62 NATO brass, which is always thicker and does have less case capacity requiring a slight reduction in max load data.
rc
greyling22
Member
556 is also loaded a little hotter. or at least to higher pressures. don't hold me to these numbers because they are off the top of my head, but 223 has a samii max of around 55k, while 556 is maxed out closer to 62k. (can't remember if that's in cup or psi) That, combined with the slightly different chamber shape is the difference. You'll notice that there are no "5.56 reloading dies"
regarding leade, I don't know if you can tell from the attached picture, but see the shiny bit in front of the case mouth, but before the rifling begins in earnest? that is the part that is bigger on 556 to allow for longer bullets, and maybe some pressure issues as well)
regarding leade, I don't know if you can tell from the attached picture, but see the shiny bit in front of the case mouth, but before the rifling begins in earnest? that is the part that is bigger on 556 to allow for longer bullets, and maybe some pressure issues as well)
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45lcshooter
Member
5.56 and 223 are the same exact case. One is military and one is commercial. I shoot both through AR and bolt action rifle.
The difference is military ones are slightly thicker brass so you use a little less powder for your charges.
People will say you can shoot 5.56 in a receiver marked 5.56 and 223(example AR-15). But you can't shoot 5.56 in a receiver marked just with 223, that is because of pressure differences with factory ammo.
If your making hot loads for a bolt gun, use both brass, some will say you need to decrease powder in 5.56 head stamped brass, I never have, and my firearms are in perfect working order and I still get 5-6 reloads out of them, and I Full Length size every time I size my brass. I shoot 800-1000 yards with my bolt 223 with plenty of 5.56 with hot loads.
The difference is military ones are slightly thicker brass so you use a little less powder for your charges.
People will say you can shoot 5.56 in a receiver marked 5.56 and 223(example AR-15). But you can't shoot 5.56 in a receiver marked just with 223, that is because of pressure differences with factory ammo.
If your making hot loads for a bolt gun, use both brass, some will say you need to decrease powder in 5.56 head stamped brass, I never have, and my firearms are in perfect working order and I still get 5-6 reloads out of them, and I Full Length size every time I size my brass. I shoot 800-1000 yards with my bolt 223 with plenty of 5.56 with hot loads.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Again, that is not always true.
I have 1,000 commercial Rem .223 cases that are thicker and have less capacity then the LC 5.56 NATO brass I have always used.
rc
rem22long40x
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I reload 5.56 for my comp. bench rest rifle in 223 and have shot thousands of rounds , if you keep your powder charges to the lower end of the scale your Cup pressures will not cut the chamber throat
kerreckt
Member
Whether it is safe to fire 5.56 ammo in a rifle marked .223 is best determined by calling the manufacturer of the rifle and asking if it is safe. That's what I did and was told that it was perfectly safe. Why they did not mark it as such is a question I did not ask.
oldpapps
Member
I full agree with RC.
But what difference does it make? For consistency separate your brass by make (I separate my military head stamped by both make and year), then adjust the load to achieve what you are looking for.
But what difference does it make? For consistency separate your brass by make (I separate my military head stamped by both make and year), then adjust the load to achieve what you are looking for.
45lcshooter
Member
Yes that is correct, that is is NOT always thicker but it most instances it is. Its just a good rule of thumb to believe that military brass is thicker by a small margins for obvious reasons. We(reloaders) mostly shoot in in normal conditions 90% of the time. The military is all over the world so the loaders needed to make rounds that won't be sensitive to changes in weather.
Thanks for confirming my logic.
Just to be clear, I have no intention of shooting 5.56 loaded ammo. I have a source for once fired LC brass, and I just wanted to be double sure I could use it before buying 500 or so pieces. I'll do my normal procedure, tumble, size and decap, case/headspace gauge, trim, swage the primer pockets and work up to a load below max pressure. I'll probably go 1 grain or so less, just to be on the safe side. I don't know if I'm going to do like with my .308 and load -.0010 off the lands.
Just to be clear, I have no intention of shooting 5.56 loaded ammo. I have a source for once fired LC brass, and I just wanted to be double sure I could use it before buying 500 or so pieces. I'll do my normal procedure, tumble, size and decap, case/headspace gauge, trim, swage the primer pockets and work up to a load below max pressure. I'll probably go 1 grain or so less, just to be on the safe side. I don't know if I'm going to do like with my .308 and load -.0010 off the lands.
beatledog7
Member
Just work up the load as you would any time you change a component.
FROGO207
Member
Work up some MIL brass with the same loads for comparison and I am betting you can't tell the difference at an accurate loading if it is not at the
exact max charge or a bit over. I will usually try a few over the Crony and see almost identical results and then load my brass as all the same. New to me brand/year brass, then I will try a few to see if/what might be different. So far all MIL Spec 5.56 has been close enough that I treat it the same other than swaging the primer pockets on the first reload. Try weighing some of each type of empty brass after sizing/depriming/trimming, if the case outside is the same size then would not the one that weighs less have thinner brass/more internal volume? YMMV
As stated the 308/7.62X51 and 30-06 MIL SPEC brass always NEEDS a reduced charge due to excess case thickness.
exact max charge or a bit over. I will usually try a few over the Crony and see almost identical results and then load my brass as all the same. New to me brand/year brass, then I will try a few to see if/what might be different. So far all MIL Spec 5.56 has been close enough that I treat it the same other than swaging the primer pockets on the first reload. Try weighing some of each type of empty brass after sizing/depriming/trimming, if the case outside is the same size then would not the one that weighs less have thinner brass/more internal volume? YMMV
As stated the 308/7.62X51 and 30-06 MIL SPEC brass always NEEDS a reduced charge due to excess case thickness.
StandingTall
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For you folks that keep insisting that 5.56 military brass has less capacity than commercial .223 brass:
YES, for the most part 7.62 NATO brass does have less case capacity. That fact is well documented; however that is NOT the case for 5.56 brass. It's nothing but internet rumor and is misinformation spread in forums such as these.
YES, for the most part 7.62 NATO brass does have less case capacity. That fact is well documented; however that is NOT the case for 5.56 brass. It's nothing but internet rumor and is misinformation spread in forums such as these.
highlander 5
Member
I've fired both 5.56 and 223 ammo out of my bolt action with no problems what so ever. The original barrel was a 1 in 12 twist I had it rebarreled to 1 in 9 as I have boat loads of 62 gr M855 bullets on hand. The action is a Ruger M77 MK II with a Timney trigger and the stock is the ugly green synthetic stock.
TexasShooter59
Member
I use both commercial .223 and military 5.56 cases in both ARs and bolt actions. With LC brass, I have obviously had to get rid of the primer crimp, and I also have to trim a fair percentage after resizing. But, they work well in either type of rifle. Like others have said, what you put inside is what counts. I would not put a Hornady 75gr. BTHP loaded to 5.56 pressure in my bolt action varmint rifle - wrong chamber, wrong barrel twist.
Basically no difference in the case, just the powder charge. Load 556 brass to 223 powder charge specs and run with it. Just develop your loads by starting low and working up. Same as always.
All the hype and hoopla about 556 in a 223 applies to factory loaded ammo and reloads specifically loaded to the higher 556 pressures. If you stick with 223 loading specs you'll be fine.
All the hype and hoopla about 556 in a 223 applies to factory loaded ammo and reloads specifically loaded to the higher 556 pressures. If you stick with 223 loading specs you'll be fine.
BullfrogKen
Moderator Emeritus
Here's an interesting article from Berger on .223 bolt rifles:
http://www.bergerbullets.com/images/articles/22-Caliber_Twist_Rates.pdf
http://www.bergerbullets.com/images/articles/22-Caliber_Twist_Rates.pdf
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