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Local 2A activist arrested for carrying firearms.

Discussion in 'Legal' started by SunnySlopes, Apr 11, 2019.

  1. SunnySlopes

    SunnySlopes Member

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    It's Broken Arrow, OK, and we've just passed Constitutional Carry and this guy follows the terms of the law to see how law enforcement reacts. He had an AR "style" rifle and a holstered handgun, and refused orders by police. They used pepperballs (?) to subdue him after someone complained that he had pointed the rifle at them. He was doing this at a popular park.

    He's also got a youtube channel called "picture perfect" where he goes around doing "'audits' of various locations testing officials’ compliance with their understanding of their First and Second Amendment rights."

    Interesting. I'd never heard of him, but it seems like he's asking for trouble with an AR at a public park. Other than that, more power to him.

    https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/loc...cle_9d808f8e-e374-5015-ae4c-0cf8642ed5d4.html


    I thought this was interesting: "Under the conditions of his release, Hubbard was mandated to relinquish all firearms and ammunition to law enforcement until the conclusion of the case."

    I picture the guy with some pricey collectibles, the police coming in and throwing everything into a burlap bag, and throwing all of it into an evidence locker.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
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  2. HPCadm17

    HPCadm17 Member

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    That's the problem I see with open carry anywhere these days, even where it's legal. Even with your pistol secure in a holster, some snowflake is bound to become unhinged at the sight of it and you might be arrested, not for legally carrying, but for creating a public disturbance. Unless law enforcement or security was my profession, I wouldn't open carry publicly anywhere except my own property, and even then only if neighbors or passers-by can't see. People have been conditioned to overreact to these things.
     
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  3. OrangeCat

    OrangeCat Member

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    November 1, permitless carry doesn't go into effect till November 1. It confused the hell out of me too but if you don't have a concealed carry permit you still need to wait a few more months.
     
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  4. SunnySlopes

    SunnySlopes Member

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    Yeah, we had some dweeb on a bicycle open carrying. The police asked to see his license and he said he didn't need one because of the new law. The police told him it doesn't go into force until November. They searched him and found meth and then he confessed that he was stoned. That was Tulsa. Last month, I think?
     
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  5. MedWheeler

    MedWheeler Member

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    The opener is about someone being arrested for what is supposed to be a lawful act.

    Let's see how fast we can get it shut down by turning it into (yet) another "OC vs. CC" debate. :scrutiny:
     
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  6. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

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    After reading the linked article, and that's all we have to go by, it seems another 2A YouTuber was apprehended doing stupid 2A YouTuber things.

    I'm not sure what the takeaway is other than dont do what he did.
     
  7. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    The title of this thread being "...2A activists arrested for carrying firearm..." I initially took this to mean carrying firearm at some sort of rally. I understand that the Constitution allows for peaceable assembly and the right to keep and bear arms, but, like chlorine and ammonia, I don't think you can mix the two. When citizens are at a political rally, it stops being peaceable when they take up arms. At that point, you are no longer a peaceable assembly-you are an armed mob. The only purpose of guns at a political event is intimidation. (I reference the Bundy ranch and Malheur stand-offs as evidence.) This is probably why our elected representatives don't go into the US House and Senate under arms; it would be like an episode of the Simpsons.
     
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  8. boom boom
    • Contributing Member

    boom boom Contributing Member

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    Ahem, some of them do or have their security guards do. See Edward Kennedy for example with his security guard. https://dailycaller.com/2013/01/23/...in-1986-for-carrying-unlicensed-machine-guns/ Quite a few state capitols allow legislative members to carry .
     
  9. JohnKSa

    JohnKSa Moderator Staff Member

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    Perhaps, but that's not what happened in this case. He was arrested for failing to comply with LEO commands. Had he handled this better the outcome would have almost certainly been different.

    By refusing to comply and forcing them to pepperball him, he chose to turn things really ugly.
    That's what the title of the thread says, but that's not what the article says and that doesn't appear to be what happened.

    He wasn't arrested for carrying firearms, he was arrested because he refused to comply with lawful LEO commands.
     
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  10. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    I'm no expert, but I think that, even if police have no right nor authority to give you a command, you still have to comply. Deal with it through the courts later.
     
  11. Sypher....

    Sypher.... Member

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    I agree. As responsible and law abiding carriers, we should be looking to de-escalate situations vs escalating or antagonizing.

    I would change “have to comply” to should comply.
     
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  12. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    Have to and should are very different terms. I think we have to comply. For example, I don't think citizens have any right whatsoever to defend themselves against police. If an officer is beating you to death, and you resist, I think you're going to jail. Because, at the end of the day, they're the authority. (not saying that's how it should be.)
     
  13. Spats McGee

    Spats McGee Moderator

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    I think I see the problem.
    Under AR law and just shooting from the hip, it's 'have to' comply. Even if the officer's orders are beyond his authority.
     
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  14. rpenmanparker

    rpenmanparker Member

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    The truth is that to “become unhinged” at the sight of an openly carried firearm by a non-LEO type is a natural response. You should not be surprised that the sight of an instrument of death causes fear in the general public in a peaceful, civilized society. This isn’t medieval England after all.

    In Europe the heavy duty rifles of the airport police strike fear in me, and I am accustomed to firearms. Same for the weapons formerly seen on a regular basis at checkpoints in Northern Ireland.

    Open carry is really stupid if 2A advocates want to get along with their neighbors. The only upside I see to it is reducing the fear in the bearer that a momentary, accidental exposure of a concealed weapon will land you in jail. Other than that it is just asking for trouble.
     
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  15. MistWolf

    MistWolf Member

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    If carrying a firearm openly and legally, why give the cops a hard time when they stop you to talk? If I were openly carrying a firearm and a cop stopped me for a talk, I would start the conversation respectfully, not by refusing to talk or giving the officer a hard time. Most cops are not "Jack booted thugs". I've gotten out of more than a few well deserved traffic tickets simply by being pleasant.

    I'm not saying folks on this forum give cops a hard time, but people carrying openly who treat cops like oppressors do us no favors.
     
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  16. BSA1

    BSA1 Member

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    The late Paul Harvey used to say on his radio program "Self government does not work without self responsibility."

    There are several idiots who have videos posted on youtube of them conducting "audits" of police and security guards. Their main reason simply is to see how officers will react when provoked.

    p.s. Pepperballs can sting and leave bruises. I hope he has a lot of them to show for his "audit" video.
     
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  17. skeeterfogger

    skeeterfogger Member

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    Like Forrest says, stupid is as stupid does.
    Seeing a firearm someone is carrying doesn't bother me near as much as being concerned as to the person. As this situation shows even nuts can carry.
    As for me I'm not in favor of open carry. First it makes you first target. Second very easy for several to distract you and one to knock you in head to take your gun. Something you probably won't wake up from.
    Puts you at risk of false accusations from snowflakes. All in all it's just look at me bull.
    Situational awareness a much safer way to self defend.
     
  18. Sypher....

    Sypher.... Member

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    Semantics for me. I prefer to feel like I have a choice in the matter, even if I don't. Let's be honest, regardless of the law, I do have a choice. I can follow the law/commands and comply, or I can disobey and not comply. One will result in a better outcome for me than the other.
     
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  19. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator

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    It's my understanding that constitutional carry doesn't become effective in Oklahoma until 1st November. Is that not correct?
     
  20. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

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    That is correct. OK constitutional carry takes effect on 1 November, 2019.
     
  21. GunnyUSMC

    GunnyUSMC Member

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    If your just walking around with your gun, but some Snowflake called in saying that you pointed your gun at them, the police are not going to show up in pink Tutus and ballerina slippers. The problem is that when the Police arrive and start giving you orders, you have no idea what they have been told and the nature of the call. If you act like a butt wad, they are not going to play nice with you. Just comply and things will go much better for you. If they violate your rights then take the issue to court.
    I'm all for open carry, but there is a time and place for it.
     
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  22. Frank Ettin

    Frank Ettin Moderator

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    Some clarification is in order here:

    1. It's been confirmed that the law doesn't become effective until 1st November 2019.

    2. So if this guy did not have a permit, he was not, by any stretch of the imagination, in compliance with current law.

    3. So this guy was wrong on multiple levels.
     
  23. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

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    If the so called "auditor" lacked a concealed carry permit he was carrying illegally.

    His failure to obey the police will prove costly.
     
  24. D.B. Cooper

    D.B. Cooper Member

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    Agreed It's BS that such is the way things are in this country, but it's better to have your rights violated and later be vindicated in court, than to resist that violation of your rights, and later be buried in the ground. (Now, if the courts stop vindicating those who have seen their rights violated, or, put another way, the courts start vindicating those who violate our rights, THEN I think we're going to see trouble.)


    Agreed. Although, in my view, that time and place is in the woods when you're hunting; in the city is never the time nor place to open carry. But that's just my opinion. It's worth exactly what you paid for it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 16, 2019
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  25. Madcap_Magician

    Madcap_Magician Member

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    Amateur auditor unfamiliar with law he is auditing. Predictable results.
     
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