Looking for a 357 handload without stuck cases

buck460XVR said:
If the chambers are clean, it's high pressure that is causing the cases to stick. Some revolvers have tight throats which can increase pressure. Have you checked your throats?
Click to expand...
This is my thought as well. I have a 357 Maximum that was experiencing the same problem on two of the six cylinders. Turned out that those two chambers had very tight throats. I reamed them all to .3585 and all is well, the brass drops freely from all chambers.
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
tight roll crimp; the kind of crimp W296 needs to work halfway decently.
Click to expand...
I agree with the jump crimp and setback prevention notions, but the ignition thing I'm not 100% sold on. I did some very informal testing where i loaded 5 of the exact same loads, 5 rolled and 5 tapered. Only tested velocity, but not accuracy.....but the velocity envelopes overlapped as if they were the same load. So, to split the difference I use a pretty light roll crimp and call it a day. And Jacketed only of course with W-296.
But, this is my experience.
 
Lots of good suggestions. Thanks guys.
I did find some old factory 357 that I've had for years. Part of me would like to chronograph this before I even try to fix this to see if it's the ammo.
Part of me wants to thoroughly clean out the cylinder just to get this fixed.

This problem is worse with some 357 handloads that I loaded with the max charge according to Hodgdon. Here's their web site
357 with H110 load data.jpg
They say they are getting 1591 feet per second with 16.7 grains of H110. Keep in mind they used a 10 inch barrel.

Using this same charge I get 1195 feet per second with Jacketed Softpoint or Plated bullets with my 4 5/8 inch barrel.
I am always very careful to give plated bullets a light crimp but even at these velocities the bullet doesn't start to come out.
When I shoot these handloads I must bring a dowel with me. I don't even try to use the ejector. I remove the cylinder and tap out each brass case.
 
Palladan44 said:
I agree with the jump crimp and setback prevention notions, but the ignition thing I'm not 100% sold on. I did some very informal testing where i loaded 5 of the exact same loads, 5 rolled and 5 tapered. Only tested velocity, but not accuracy.....but the velocity envelopes overlapped as if they were the same load. So, to split the difference I use a pretty light roll crimp and call it a day. And Jacketed only of course with W-296.
But, this is my experience.
Click to expand...
OP is using a 158gr JSP load with Berry’s plated 158gr. No pictures but he didn’t say anything about crimping for either round.

But, never mind. It’s just a minor concern anyway and probably not related. Plated bullet failure due to excessive pressure or roll crimping is just too rare.

Thanks for the reminder that all of those manuals recommending a hard roll crimp when using 296/110 were just wrong.

IMG_2316.jpeg

Just enough to prevent setbacks is fine.
 
Durango_Dave said:
Lots of good suggestions. Thanks guys.
I did find some old factory 357 that I've had for years. Part of me would like to chronograph this before I even try to fix this to see if it's the ammo.
Part of me wants to thoroughly clean out the cylinder just to get this fixed.

This problem is worse with some 357 handloads that I loaded with the max charge according to Hodgdon. Here's their web site
View attachment 1191110
They say they are getting 1591 feet per second with 16.7 grains of H110. Keep in mind they used a 10 inch barrel.

Using this same charge I get 1195 feet per second with Jacketed Softpoint or Plated bullets with my 4 5/8 inch barrel.
I am always very careful to give plated bullets a light crimp but even at these velocities the bullet doesn't start to come out.
When I shoot these handloads I must bring a dowel with me. I don't even try to use the ejector. I remove the cylinder and tap out each brass case.
Click to expand...
There is nothing a good clean of the cylinder could hurt except verification of hard extraction. If you deep clean and the problem is not repeated you still have the answer you need for extraction.
 
If the chambers of the cylinder are full of crud from shooting 38 specials than make a cleaning tool.

Take a piece of sized deprimed 357 brass. Flare the mouth just enough that it barely fits into the chambers. The use some gun cleaning solvent in each hole and tap the brass into each hole
This will scrape out any carbon (no it doesn't hurt the gun( you may have to tap it out with a dowel

Now take a OVERSIZED bore brush (your regular bore brush will not work( or better use a Hoppes Tornado brush and check on a drill and clean out each hole Use some Flitz of something,

If this doesn't cure the problem then move on to sizing each chamber and get them honed out to the correct size.

www.brownells.com

HOPPE'S TORNADO BRUSHES | Brownells

Check out the HOPPE'S available Online at Brownells Today and many more Gun Cleaning Brushes products are available in our Tools & Cleaning Department.
www.brownells.com www.brownells.com
 
Rule3 said:
If the chambers of the cylinder are full of crud from shooting 38 specials than make a cleaning tool.

Take a piece of sized deprimed 357 brass. Flare the mouth just enough that it barely fits into the chambers. The use some gun cleaning solvent in each hole and tap the brass into each hole
This will scrape out any carbon (no it doesn't hurt the gun( you may have to tap it out with a dowel

Now take a OVERSIZED bore brush (your regular bore brush will not work( or better use a Hoppes Tornado brush and check on a drill and clean out each hole Use some Flitz of something,

If this doesn't cure the problem then move on to sizing each chamber and get them honed out to the correct size.

www.brownells.com

HOPPE'S TORNADO BRUSHES | Brownells

Check out the HOPPE'S available Online at Brownells Today and many more Gun Cleaning Brushes products are available in our Tools & Cleaning Department.
www.brownells.com www.brownells.com
Click to expand...
A good dose of chamfer might help, skip debur
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
OP is using a 158gr JSP load with Berry’s plated 158gr. No pictures but he didn’t say anything about crimping for either round.

But, never mind. It’s just a minor concern anyway and probably not related. Plated bullet failure due to excessive pressure or roll crimping is just too rare.

Thanks for the reminder that all of those manuals recommending a hard roll crimp when using 296/110 were just wrong.

View attachment 1191113

Just enough to prevent setbacks is fine.
Click to expand...
Well I'm glad all of my W-296 loads are 105-110% capacity then. I do appreciate the reminder, thanks for that GEO.

300BO, 350 LEG, 450 Bushmaster just to name a few seem to have pretty good success with 296, with no roll crimp.. but maybe the platform, or the small rifle primer changes the 90% or less case capacity ignitition issue. Who knows.

I simply stated my personal experience with it, and also my opinion on how I think the heavy roll crimp is a tad bit overblown.
My light roll crimp takes a lot of smacks on the concrete to pull one.
 
I have a Ruger Blackhawk in 30 Carbine and I had two cylinders that the cartridges would stick in with factory new ammo and three different kinds, S&B, REM,and the famous ammo from Mexico that starts with an A and smells like baby urine. I called Ruger and they told me what they did to fix the problem. They said to go to the local auto parts store and buy a Valve lashing compound kit. Take a Bore Mop and start with the 180 grit past and run in through the cylinders that stick and then use the 220 grit and take it to the range and if it still is hard to extract then do it again until the casings come out with very little pressure on the extracting rod. That saved me shipping cost and it worked the second time I did it.. The cartridge comes right out with the extractor rod. That is what they said they do. Good Luck or send it back to Ruger.
 
I did a through cleaning of the cylinder. I followed the instructions of Bore Tech. They say first get the barrel (or cylinder) wet with Bore Tech Eliminator. Then use an undersized brush with a patch wrapped around it with Bore Tech Chameleon Gel. This gets the cylinder (or barrel) wet with Chameleon Gel. Let it set for 3 to 5 minutes.

Next followed the instructions of eddiememphis and Rule3 I used a 357 brass case. I flared the mouth with a 38 special/357 expanding die. I expanded it a little at a time until it was just the right size to tightly fit into the cylinder. Pushing this expanded 357 brass case into each chamber of the cylinder scraped them out nicely.

Then I used Bore Tech Eliminator again to clean out any residue.

I'm going to be honest here and say I really don't think this will be the final fix of my problem. I did not see my crud ring as being of an issue that can explain the stuck brass. Sure their was a crud ring but I don't think this was enough to cause my stuck brass.

I may eat my words and agree with W.E.G. who said
"I have ANOTHER 686. I won't shoot .38 in it. Not. Even. Once."

He wants to keep 357 magnum completely separate from 38 Special.

Are Crud rings that bad that you must separate 357 onto a separate gun from the 38 Special?

I'll shoot my newly cleaned Blackhawk through a chronograph in the next few days. I need to make sure the weather is good.
 
Durango_Dave said:
I did a through cleaning of the cylinder. I followed the instructions of Bore Tech. They say first get the barrel (or cylinder) wet with Bore Tech Eliminator. Then use an undersized brush with a patch wrapped around it with Bore Tech Chameleon Gel. This gets the cylinder (or barrel) wet with Chameleon Gel. Let it set for 3 to 5 minutes.

Next followed the instructions of eddiememphis and Rule3 I used a 357 brass case. I flared the mouth with a 38 special/357 expanding die. I expanded it a little at a time until it was just the right size to tightly fit into the cylinder. Pushing this expanded 357 brass case into each chamber of the cylinder scraped them out nicely.

Then I used Bore Tech Eliminator again to clean out any residue.

I'm going to be honest here and say I really don't think this will be the final fix of my problem. I did not see my crud ring as being of an issue that can explain the stuck brass. Sure there was a crud ring but I don't think this was enough to cause my stuck brass. Did you buy your Ruger new or used? How long has the “crud ring” been in the chambers of the cylinder?

I may eat my words and agree with W.E.G. who said
"I have ANOTHER 686. I won't shoot .38 in it. Not. Even. Once."

He wants to keep 357 magnum completely separate from 38 Special.

Are Crud rings that bad that you must separate 357 onto a separate gun from the 38 Special? I do, and if I do shoot a few .38’s in one of my .357’s, I clean it thoroughly right after, using one of the stainless tornado brushes on the cylinder. The longer the “crud ring” stays in there, and the more you add to it over time, the more likely you are to have extraction problems with the longer .357 cases and the more difficult it will be to remove said rings.

I'll shoot my newly cleaned Blackhawk through a chronograph in the next few days. I need to make sure the weather is good.
Click to expand...
See comments above. Hope you got it worked out.
 
Durango_Dave said:
Are Crud rings that bad that you must separate 357 onto a separate gun from the 38 Special?
Click to expand...
They can be, really depends on the cylinder, the load, etc.... I don't have any problems shooting 38spcl and 357mag through my gun, but when I clean it I really clean the cylinder. I also don't shoot a lot of 38spcl so that may also be a factor.

My cleaning regimen is pretty simple. A bore brush dipped in Hoppes, run through each chamber three or four times, and if the chamber doesn't seem to be getting wet, dip the brush again. Then let it sit for a few minutes while I clean a different part of the gun, or do whatever for a few minutes, then run a dry patch through each chamber until it comes out clean. If I'm having a problem getting the patch to come out clean on any of the chambers, I repeat the entire process. Once clean I oil it and I'm done. The rest of the gun may or may not get the same amount of attention.

Try your loads again now that you've cleaned the cylinder, and if they still have sticky extraction drop the charge down a bit or go to the start charge and work up to a safe and accurate load.

chris
 
74man said:
I have a Ruger Blackhawk in 30 Carbine and I had two cylinders that the cartridges would stick in with factory new ammo and three different kinds, S&B, REM,and the famous ammo from Mexico that starts with an A and smells like baby urine. I called Ruger and they told me what they did to fix the problem. They said to go to the local auto parts store and buy a Valve lashing compound kit. Take a Bore Mop and start with the 180 grit past and run in through the cylinders that stick and then use the 220 grit and take it to the range and if it still is hard to extract then do it again until the casings come out with very little pressure on the extracting rod. That saved me shipping cost and it worked the second time I did it.. The cartridge comes right out with the extractor rod. That is what they said they do. Good Luck or send it back to Ruger.
Click to expand...
I resolved sticky extraction in a 41 magnum using this method. Certainly worth a try if the throats measurements are correct.
 
At the end of each range session of shooting lead, I always fire at least a cylinder or 2 of Jacketed magnum rounds. lead-b-gone.
The carbon "38 ring" will be there if you shoot a lot of 38s in a 357 wheelgun, it can't be avoided.
 
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