Arkansas Paul
Member
I don't know about reliability issues when shooting straight up into the air, but I've shot a 3.5" magnum in a Mossbert 535 straight up at geese and it darn near broke my shoulder. lol
Looking for a Defensive PUMP Action Shotgun
- Thread starter tomrkba
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I don't know about reliability issues when shooting straight up into the air, but I've shot a 3.5" magnum in a Mossbert 535 straight up at geese and it darn near broke my shoulder. lol
Zach S
Member
I'm a little late, but I use a 20" 590 with a tac-star side saddle, an old surefire incandescent fore end (623FA) upgraded with a malkoff LED and a MagPul stock.
I wouldn't worry about the plastic trigger housing, I haven't broke mine. I would replace the safety, it broke shortly after I bought it... Oddly enough, I had already ordered the Vang Comp part.
I used to have issues with the last round feeding, I drilled a 3/16 or 1/4 hole in the follower and havent had an issue since.
The magpul stock seems to be the perfect combination of a pistol grip and traditional stock... However the cheek riser is too tall to get a good sight picture with the brass bead... I cant get used to it so I think I see the use of my drum sander and heat gun in future...
The Malkoff lamp and Magpul stock have been the only upgrades since around 2005... I previously used a stippled and chopped factory stock, 12.5" LOP with a youth model recoil pad.
I wouldn't worry about the plastic trigger housing, I haven't broke mine. I would replace the safety, it broke shortly after I bought it... Oddly enough, I had already ordered the Vang Comp part.
I used to have issues with the last round feeding, I drilled a 3/16 or 1/4 hole in the follower and havent had an issue since.
The magpul stock seems to be the perfect combination of a pistol grip and traditional stock... However the cheek riser is too tall to get a good sight picture with the brass bead... I cant get used to it so I think I see the use of my drum sander and heat gun in future...
The Malkoff lamp and Magpul stock have been the only upgrades since around 2005... I previously used a stippled and chopped factory stock, 12.5" LOP with a youth model recoil pad.
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Personally, I'm a fan of the Remington 870, but I don't think its necesarily the best shotgun out there. I will say that I've seen more Mossberg pump guns and Saiga autoloaders fail than other shotguns.
I don't think you can really go wrong with a Remington, Bennelli, or Winchester.
As far as training goes. I took Chris Costa's shotgun class, and found it to be pretty darn good.
Guess what paramedic student now lives in Florida and finds himself without a part time job yet! You got yourself a deal Rusty! You provide the firearm and ammo, and I'll provide the entertainment!
Stay safe guys,
Chris "The Kayak-man" Johnson
I don't think you can really go wrong with a Remington, Bennelli, or Winchester.
As far as training goes. I took Chris Costa's shotgun class, and found it to be pretty darn good.
Guess what paramedic student now lives in Florida and finds himself without a part time job yet! You got yourself a deal Rusty! You provide the firearm and ammo, and I'll provide the entertainment!
Stay safe guys,
Chris "The Kayak-man" Johnson
Fred Fuller
Moderator Emeritus
The big advantage pump shotguns have (compared to equivalent quality semiautos) is price. While inflation has mostly put an end to the days I could pick up a good used 870 Express for under $175, a good used pumpgun is still going to be less expensive than a good used semiauto, and that's a definite given for new guns as well.
As I've said before, reliability should be pretty much equivalent, given well maintained guns and good quality ammo. The pump of course requires a trained and practiced operator to avoid short stroking ... but in my not at all humble opinion, ANY defensive shotgun requires a trained and practiced operator to be reliably effective and safe in use. Shotguns are at the same time the most simple and the most demanding of all defensive firearms IMHO, but I still prefer them hands down for any short range short duration defensive need. For as trainer Clint Smith says, shotguns will remove meat and bone. In short IMO there is nothing as likely to prove effective in self defense against a human assailant than a shotgun in the hands of a capable shooter.
With that said, the hardware matters less than the shooter. Even before I retired, it was an accepted truth in US Army special operations that 'Humans are more important than hardware.' And COL Boyd said it even before then - see my sig below.
So as long as the shotgun is mechanically reliable, the choice is more a matter of what fits and feels right than much of anything else. There are lots more good shotguns out there than there are good shotgun shooters.
I'm an unabashed 870 fan, but Big Green is not the be all and end all. I would not feel at all under-equipped with a Mossberg 590 either. For that matter any solid design since J.M. Browning's Winchester 1897 would do. The thing is, I've been using 870s so much for so long that my hands know the design like my tongue knows my teeth. I don't have to think to run an 870. So my advice is to pick a design, whatever you like, and get good with it - then stick to it. Marry it, in other words.
I have a bevy of pumps - a Norinco clone of the solid frame 1897 riot gun, JMB's next repeating shotgun design, the humpback Stevens 520 (which imho has the best take-down system ever), the mechanically similar but streamlined Stevens 620, a police trade-in High Standard Flite King riot gun, etc. Any of them will do. But my hands just don't know any of them as they do an 870.
As to the class, get your safety chops and administrative gunhandling chops down pat first, before you take a class. Safety is primary - the Four Rules should be reflex. Muzzle awareness and trigger finger discipline should be absolute. Being comfortable loading, unloading, shooting and cycling the gun should be a given. When you're comfortable with the above, you're ready for a class.
I'd encourage you to go for the best training you can find. While there are a lot of local folks who can handle shotgun instruction quite well, try looking at a top tier nationally/internationally known instructor. Unfortunately we just lost the person many considered the best in the business with a shotgun, Louis Awerbuck. But the state of the art lives on, in very capable hands. Consider Randy Cain, John Farnam, Clint Smith, Tom Givens ... several of them travel to some degree, though none as much as Louis did. It's possible you might be able to find a class close by you, brought by one of the itinerant instructors, or you may well find someone local you like. My advice is to sample several classes and use what works best for you.
Good luck and happy shopping...
As I've said before, reliability should be pretty much equivalent, given well maintained guns and good quality ammo. The pump of course requires a trained and practiced operator to avoid short stroking ... but in my not at all humble opinion, ANY defensive shotgun requires a trained and practiced operator to be reliably effective and safe in use. Shotguns are at the same time the most simple and the most demanding of all defensive firearms IMHO, but I still prefer them hands down for any short range short duration defensive need. For as trainer Clint Smith says, shotguns will remove meat and bone. In short IMO there is nothing as likely to prove effective in self defense against a human assailant than a shotgun in the hands of a capable shooter.
With that said, the hardware matters less than the shooter. Even before I retired, it was an accepted truth in US Army special operations that 'Humans are more important than hardware.' And COL Boyd said it even before then - see my sig below.
So as long as the shotgun is mechanically reliable, the choice is more a matter of what fits and feels right than much of anything else. There are lots more good shotguns out there than there are good shotgun shooters.
I'm an unabashed 870 fan, but Big Green is not the be all and end all. I would not feel at all under-equipped with a Mossberg 590 either. For that matter any solid design since J.M. Browning's Winchester 1897 would do. The thing is, I've been using 870s so much for so long that my hands know the design like my tongue knows my teeth. I don't have to think to run an 870. So my advice is to pick a design, whatever you like, and get good with it - then stick to it. Marry it, in other words.
I have a bevy of pumps - a Norinco clone of the solid frame 1897 riot gun, JMB's next repeating shotgun design, the humpback Stevens 520 (which imho has the best take-down system ever), the mechanically similar but streamlined Stevens 620, a police trade-in High Standard Flite King riot gun, etc. Any of them will do. But my hands just don't know any of them as they do an 870.
As to the class, get your safety chops and administrative gunhandling chops down pat first, before you take a class. Safety is primary - the Four Rules should be reflex. Muzzle awareness and trigger finger discipline should be absolute. Being comfortable loading, unloading, shooting and cycling the gun should be a given. When you're comfortable with the above, you're ready for a class.
I'd encourage you to go for the best training you can find. While there are a lot of local folks who can handle shotgun instruction quite well, try looking at a top tier nationally/internationally known instructor. Unfortunately we just lost the person many considered the best in the business with a shotgun, Louis Awerbuck. But the state of the art lives on, in very capable hands. Consider Randy Cain, John Farnam, Clint Smith, Tom Givens ... several of them travel to some degree, though none as much as Louis did. It's possible you might be able to find a class close by you, brought by one of the itinerant instructors, or you may well find someone local you like. My advice is to sample several classes and use what works best for you.
Good luck and happy shopping...
If found for right price my top pick would be Ohio made Ithaca 37. Found previously unsold one with long magazine tube at LGS for sale price of $500. In professional category I would rate it superior to both Remington 870 Police Magnum and Mossberg 590A1. The best thing is that there are few useless accessories made like those found for Mossberg or Remington so there is no urge to throw out money for them.
RustyShackelford
member
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Defense model Ithacas....
The defense type Ithaca models do seem impressive but the price is steep.
The Ithacas don't seem to have as many after market parts & add-ons as the Mossberg 500/590 or Remington 870.
The shotguns do look like they've had major QC upgrades & can handle home defense duties.
The defense type Ithaca models do seem impressive but the price is steep.
The Ithacas don't seem to have as many after market parts & add-ons as the Mossberg 500/590 or Remington 870.
The shotguns do look like they've had major QC upgrades & can handle home defense duties.
FuzzyBunny
Member
Mossberg 500/590
Because they have moved to Texas and left where they were because they were not gun friendly at all.
Plus they said it in the public statement.
I'm buying one marked Made In Texas as soon as I see one (590).
I like Ithaca and Remingtons too. Tons of aftermarket parts.
Because they have moved to Texas and left where they were because they were not gun friendly at all.
Plus they said it in the public statement.
I'm buying one marked Made In Texas as soon as I see one (590).
I like Ithaca and Remingtons too. Tons of aftermarket parts.
RustyShackelford
member
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Browning BPS pump all weather 18" barrel....
Top gun maker; Browning, produced a slick "all weather" pump 12ga BPS with a carbon fiber stock & a 18" barrel with extended mag tube. I think it held 6 12ga shells + 1 in the chamber. The BPS had a silver grey NP3/nickel type surface & held up well to outdoor use or defense chores.
I wanted to save up & buy a BPS(I'm left handed) but alas, Browning only sold this model for about 2 years(2007/2008 era).
Rusty
Top gun maker; Browning, produced a slick "all weather" pump 12ga BPS with a carbon fiber stock & a 18" barrel with extended mag tube. I think it held 6 12ga shells + 1 in the chamber. The BPS had a silver grey NP3/nickel type surface & held up well to outdoor use or defense chores.
I wanted to save up & buy a BPS(I'm left handed) but alas, Browning only sold this model for about 2 years(2007/2008 era).
Rusty
splattergun
Member
I have been very happy with my Mossberg 500 for years and years. I look at others and think to myself "yeah, maybe this one", but I have never found a reason to replace it as my favorite. It is so dang adaptable, from 18.5 inch security barrel to long waterfowl barrel., youth stock or adult. I literally have 5 guns in one. Yes, I use it for home security with the short barrel.
Sheepdog1968
Member
To add onto what Fred Fuller said above. I have picked one brand of shotgun and have been exclusively using it for 25 years. I do think that helps. I found an easy way to practice a lot of self defense stuff with the shotgun. I joined a trap league. I've gotten very good at loafing either the tube or port loading the chamber. I don't need to look. Same goes for press checks and mag tube checks. I do run the pump quickly after each shot. Recently, I started loading from a side saddle when I do trap. Yes, it looks a bit silly relative to what others are doing. But, it just provides a simple way to get reps on loading from the side saddle.
Oh, and a trap league is just plain fun. Hmmm, I get to practice self defense running of a shotgun, breaking clays, and having fun. Life is good.
Oh, and a trap league is just plain fun. Hmmm, I get to practice self defense running of a shotgun, breaking clays, and having fun. Life is good.
Fleetman
Member
I like an 870 but primarily since I've owned 870's for over 30 years (we have five of them....410, 20 ga & three 12 ga).
Our primary SD 870 is a youth-stocked 20" barrel model loaded with #4 Buck. We do keep a pistol-grip 18" 870 under the bed loaded with 000 Buck.
Both stay chamber-empty with f/pin released (to avoid fumbling with the action release). We also keep handguns (fully loaded) in our night stands.
We have drilled ourselves and, from the alarm sounding from any door/window opened, we can be in position for SD before anyone can make it to the top of the stairs.
Our primary SD 870 is a youth-stocked 20" barrel model loaded with #4 Buck. We do keep a pistol-grip 18" 870 under the bed loaded with 000 Buck.
Both stay chamber-empty with f/pin released (to avoid fumbling with the action release). We also keep handguns (fully loaded) in our night stands.
We have drilled ourselves and, from the alarm sounding from any door/window opened, we can be in position for SD before anyone can make it to the top of the stairs.
cwmoss
Member
Both the 870 and Mossberg 500/590 are great shotguns. I have both, but when I was first looking and looking for reliability, a friend told me that in all his years, he had never seen a broken Mossberg. The 870 he had seen a few, not many, that had a part fail. To me the 870 has a much smoother action than the Mossbergs.
Ithaca 37 fits the descriptions you described, especially the ambidextrous part. Here is mine before adding the velcro side saddle for a class that was being offered at our local range. Other than classes where you feed off the side saddle, I think 8 rounds will suit my needs. Port reloading with the bottom feed was interesting but very doable.
Bottom eject, 7+1 and there is an adjustable stock (I have one in my shop for this gun that I just felt was not needed). Drilled and tapped for whatever optics might tickle your fancy.
Bottom eject, 7+1 and there is an adjustable stock (I have one in my shop for this gun that I just felt was not needed). Drilled and tapped for whatever optics might tickle your fancy.
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