Looking for advice from a Newbie

[trippstadt]

I apologise if the information I'm looking for is readily available here in other threads, and I just missed it, but I took a cursory look for it, and didn't find it.

My wife and I have never owned a gun and never fired a handgun. I've fired a rifle maybe three times, at various skeet shooting ranges. My wife and I have just signed up to attend a beginning small arms class in early February, with the intent to purchase one or two weapons for home protection. With what happened during Katrina and our concerns about the potential for lawlessness after a similar catastrophe in our area, or a terrorist attack, or a devastating epidemic, etc., we've decided that we're ready to have a weapon or two in our house, just in case.

We probably won't become highly involved with our weapons or with our fellow gun owners, other than to take the time (and effort) necessary in order to be sufficiently proficient with our weapons solely for the stated purpose; home protection. We look forward to our introductory class.

As such, we are interested in any advice you may have regarding:

1. What type of handguns to get (money is not a barrier, though we certainly don't need any exotic or especially high performing (costly) weapons, given our purpose)?
2. Should we consider a rifle either instead of a handgun, or perhaps in addition to it?
3. How do we keep our weapons from being used, in our absence, by our children, or by their friends, or by someone who shouldn't be in our house (not that that has ever happened), and still ensure that the weapon is available for our use at a moment's notice?
4. Is there some special kind of safeguard we could get?

Anyway, that's enough for now. As you can probably gather from my questions, I am a total newbie to this, and again, I apologise if all this information is already available here somewhere, and I just missed it.

Tripp

 

[Black Majik]

For home defense, look into a 12 gauge shotgun such as the Remington 870, Winchester 1300, or Mossberg 500/590. They're very potent and capable home defense firearms.

Handguns are also great to have around for home defense in case your shotgun is not readily available. Look into a .357 magnum revolver such as the S&W 686 or Ruger GP100. .357 revolvers can also shoot .38 special rounds, so you can shoot those at the range to practice and become more efficient with.

Another option is to look at a Glock 17 or Glock 19. This is a semiauto pistol chambered in 9mm. The idea behind this platform is its simplicity, no external controls or safeties. Just point and shoot essentially like a revolver.

My handgun recommendations should be around $500 give or take. I do recommend buying both a handgun and shotgun for home protection, both serves different purposes and can be quite beneficial. It's good to have options too to see what you like/prefer.

Good luck.

 

[El Tejon]

Tripp, you have a buddy that knows guns and has a bunch? If so, talk to him and he can show you different ones.

Head off to a rental range and see what is out there. Remember this if nothing else, firearms are extremely subjective. What I like you may hate and vice versa. There is no "best" just what works for you.

Get a class or three. Get educated, allow your sofware to select your hardware.

 

[ronto]

Remington Model 870 Express 12GA shotgun...No home should be without one.
Keep it loaded but WITHOUT a round in the chamber.
If your heart is set on a handgun, the 4" Ruger GP100 .357 Magnum would be a good choice. You can also fire 38 Specials from it if .357 Magnum recoil is too much for you. I'd stay away from semi-automatic handguns in your case (more complicated, less reliable and more maintainence required).

 

[up_onus]

I agree with previous posters in that gun preference is subjective. Just about eveybody you ask will tell you what THEIR preference is. On that note...

I say start with a revolver, reliable and relatively easy to start shooting. If you plan on carrying that revolver outside of the house, there are many threads on that issue as how to pick a good one.

Is your only use for a possible rifle home defense?? Do you ever plan for a possible but very unlikely SHTF (stuff hits the fan) scenario? Maybe hunt if you had to? etc... There are many threads on this SHTF topic as well. If strictly home defense there are two possibilities. First as already stated a shotgun. Second, there are many carbines ( like this one which holds 50 rounds instead of a shotguns 8 -- http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=62787432 -- )out there that will match this intended use. Look up Carbine and Home defense.

Finally, The "lockup". There are gunsafes to put guns away when your not there....there are many threads on this issue, look up RSC or gun safe. If you wish to lock up your guns while at home - yet have fast access, there are "lockboxes" as shown in this link...

http://www.botac.com/vlinecombat.html

There are many similar items to this in which there are fast ways to access your weapon, but this will not hold a rifle, carbine or shotgun...
Good luck with your search.

 

[ZeSpectre]

Sent the OP a PM.

 

[SwampFox]

Quote from trippstadt "With what happened during Katrina and our concerns about the potential for lawlessness after a similar catastrophe in our area, or a terrorist attack, or a devastating epidemic, etc., we've decided that we're ready to have a weapon or two in our house, just in case."

In a gun battle a handgun is used to fight your way to a rifle. Given your expressed concern I would think one of the above mentioned shotguns and a magazine fed rifle would be the arms of choice.

Handguns are use when a long arm is awkward or inappropriate.

 

[Gbro]

Welcome to the Gun Crowd.
You are going to be just fine, as you are willing to ask for assistance. Lots of folk jump into the Gun scene with both feet, barefooted, and there are some burrs here.
After the basics in firearms safety you will have fewer questions, and soon will be able to help others with their big 1st. step.
Again Welcome

Gbro

 

[tegemu]

Welcome to the forum Tripp. Your questions cover a multitude of thoughts and considerations. You will get a lot of answers in the handgun course. I would suggest finding someone in your area that is competant enough to give you an unbiased opinion. (Oh sure, just go to my local sport shop and buy one of those!) Perhaps some visits to local shooting ranges and some questions to shooters there. Gun stores might be a tad more interested in selling you a particular firearm that really is not the best for you. There may also be some members of this forum in your area who would be glad to help you (Chime in guys). Most of us are honored to help someone learn about our sport and it's uses. I have done that for a new shooter in my area that I met on a forum and I would gladly do it for you but VA is a bit of a drive. You might try using the search feature of this and other forums. There are many satisfactory answers to your questions.

 

[justatexasboy]

Trip,

Black Majics advice is right on target in my opinion.

How old are your kids? I have an 11 year old boy, a nine year old girl, and a two year old.

In my experience the best precautions you can take with children where guns are concernered is education. Get them in a child safetey course if there are going to be firearms in the house. The NRA offers several gun saftey courses for children.

 

[Shadan7]

You've got a good start with advice there, and taking the class is the way to go. Big thing I'll add is that you can't just take a class or two and then forget about it - plan on trips to the range every few months, a couple of times a year at least, in order to remain proficient and safe with your home-defense firearms. That practice will save your life in an emergency.

7

 

[MrDig]

I agree with the Idea that a 12 gauge Shot gun is the prefered choice for HD, I have a Mossberg 500. I would also advise a small revolver like previously mentioned GP100-141 is an excelent choice, and Maybe a Midlin 9mm or 40 S&W semiauto. Way too many fine choices to recommend one specific, What I own is a FM M95 9mm Hi-Power.
You and your wife should be Familiar and be able to use all three, fine to pick a Favorite but know all three very well.

 

[SoCalShooter]

Welcome to the forum and welcome to the growing number of those who rely on themselves for their protection.

1. What type of handguns to get (money is not a barrier, though we certainly don't need any exotic or especially high performing (costly) weapons, given our purpose)?
2. Should we consider a rifle either instead of a handgun, or perhaps in addition to it?
3. How do we keep our weapons from being used, in our absence, by our children, or by their friends, or by someone who shouldn't be in our house (not that that has ever happened), and still ensure that the weapon is available for our use at a moment's notice?
4. Is there some special kind of safeguard we could get?

1. You have many choices here. Revolver or Semi-auto is a major one.

Suggested Semi-autos
1. Sprinfield GI .45acp
2. Glock 21
3. Springfield XD .45acp
These are moderately priced easy to use semi's There are more for sure and I am sure the guys here will let you know what they are.

Suggested Revolvers
S&W model 19k .357mag
Ruger makes some nice revolvers and so does Taurus
If you get a revolver .357mag is (in my opinion) the best choice.

You want both rifle and handgun.
Suggested rifles
Ruger mini-14
Springfield m1a
AR 15 (if your in a good state)
AK of some varient

Shotguns:
Remington 870 or 11-87
Benelli has some nice but expensive shotguns
Mossberg 590 tac is a great shotgun

As for misuse I suggest a standing safe. For weapons that are not being used regularily and as for the HD weapon(s) put it out of the way and out of sight and even put a gun lock on it. You dont have to load the weapons but you should have a handgun with a loaded mag but not chambered if you have this concern. They have handgun safes that are quick access that could possibly go in a drawer or under your bed.

The best safe guard you can have is to teach your kids not to touch the weapons (i dont know how old they are but you coud teach them how to use them). If you have small children keep the guns out of reach or locked in a cabinet that you can easily get into. Good Luck.

p.s. Try and become involved in the gun community if you can, you can learn a lot and meet a lot of really great people. Taking a class is a great way to get the info too.

Also RENT RENT RENT, test out different hand guns may run you a little extra but you have to find the weapon that is comfortable for you and your family and wont kill the budget also.

 

[SniperStraz]

If your gonna...

...put the guns away somewhere and "forget" about them, I would suggest a .357 Magnum revolver as opposed to a semi-auto handgun simply because you don't have to clean them once a month. They pretty much stay usable all the time. As far as a semi-auto, I'm a huge advocate of the Sig P226, but pretty much any good handgun will work for a crisis such as described above. As far as a "long arm" type weapon, a shotgun is great for riot control and general HD (home defense). Lots of good shotguns out there, but simplicity is great. That being said the Remington 870 and Mossberg 500 are both great SGs with alot of cool accesories. A rifle is great for anti-terror type situations but have little use in HD situations. If you feel that they are a must, the Kel-Tec SU16 brought back great reports It is economic, and is reliable. (thus far) Any SKS is also a great tough rifle. Safe but readily accessable? Tough request but it can be done. I've seen a wide variety of little digital combination safes, and they seem to be quite popular.
Enjoy this wonderful skill and stay safe.

 

[trippstadt]

Hey, this is great

Well Fellas (Gals?),

I belong to a number of similar forums (similar in mechanism, NOT in subject area), but have to say how impressed I am to come back here after my initial post and find all these truly helpful responses. Thank you, thank you for welcoming me in such a manner.

I'm a "tech" guy, and while I've never focused myself in this area before, there is the potential for me, as my wife would attest to, to get quite caught up in the technology, terminology, history, and other accoutrements of this area of interest. If you all represent a valid sample of the kind of people I'd meet during this pursuit, then that "potential" inceases dramatically. - Tripp

 

[ZeSpectre]

Was thinking about this further and thought of another bit of input I wanted to add...

You wish to have one (or more) weapons in the house for self defense against a possible variety of threats. This is perfectly fine but I have a few questions for you before I'd give any further advice.

#1) Do you think that you can shoot someone (repeatedly if necessary)?
I realize that's a pretty blunt question but it's one that you need to ask and answer for yourself because if the answer is "no" you need to stop considering guns for self defense and come up with another plan. (I'm not saying you can't own guns for other reasons but it does mean that you shouldn't pretend they are for defense).

#2) Are you (and everyone else in your household) going to commit to learning at least the basic gun safety and handling rules? Possibly, like my wife, the others in your house will have no interest in shooting and possibly (also like my wife) they couldn't shoot someone else even to save their own life. That's fine, but EVERYONE needs to understand and be capable of practicing safe gun handling.

#3) Are YOU (at minimum) going to commit the time and $$$ to TRAIN up to at least a basic level of competency? If not, don't bother with guns. They aren't area weapons and they aren't magic wands. They are a tool with a fairly demanding set of skill requirements that must be met before you can use them well (this is double for a stress situation).

Mind you, I'm not trying to scare you away... I'm just trying to get the most basic IMPORTANT gun ownership questions out of the way first.

 

[SoCalShooter]

If you all represent a valid sample of the kind of people I'd meet during this pursuit, then that "potential" inceases dramatically.

Unfortunetly not all gun owners or advocates will always be this helpful but take it in stride please we are working on the rough edges.

Also I did not see anyone and I forgot myself to suggest a GOOD FLASHLIGHT. Suggested is SUREFIRE I have 5 of em and they have given me better service than any maglight I have ever owned.

Most if not all the weapons here have a lot of accessories, so please dont be by how quickly it adds up.

 

[BullfrogKen]

Perhaps you might consider taking a Basic course offered by an NRA instructor, or a local class? Most are one or two day familarization courses designed to teach those with no knowledge how to be safe, how to secure the firearm, etc.

Then, once you've been exposed to such material, you might be better equipped to make your decision.


Lots of folks here are going to suggest their preferences; some might even go as far as to give you a list of guns to consider. But none of us know you and your situation, and they are all unique. Just as in everything else in life . . . You'll have to educate yourself, and then make the best choice for you.

 

[kludge]

I have to commend our new member for asking good pertinent questions!

www.corneredcat.com would be a good read for both of you. I'm glad to see that you are taking a class. Kudos for being responsible gun owners.

Now to your questions:
1. Since this is home defense, don't short change yourself in the caliber department when it comes to handguns. 9mm, 40 S&W (Smith & Wesson), 45ACP, or .357 Magnum are all good candidates. There's also no reason for a small "concealable" handgun for home defense. The FIT in your hand is more important than size. A gun with some "weight" will be a more comfortable shooter. A 4" barrel (either revolver or semi-auto) is what you want.

Any of the shotguns mentioned by Black Majic are good choices with "00" (double aught) buckshot.

2. As for rifles, I feel that a semi-auto carbine is good for home defense, though the naysayers site overpenetration and deafening noise. Any gun worthy of home defense will penetrate several walls, and a 12 gauge shotgun will ring your ears just as well. I have both a 30 Carbine (aka M1 Carbine) and a Kel-Tec 5.56mm semi-auto for home defense. There are also many "pistol caliber" carbines available (9mm, 40S&W, 45ACP) if a "rifle" isn't what you're looking for.

3. Educate your children (search: Eddie Eagle) and don't allow them to mention the guns to their friends. It's far better to gun-proof your kids that to attempt to kid-proof your guns. They have literally YEARS to figure out where you stashed them and hid the keys. Do not treat them as taboo, eliminate their curiosity. That said, I absolutely HATE trigger locks, they do little more than prevent the owner from using his gun in an emergency. It's far faster IMO to load a weapon than to find the key and unlock it. I choose to keep my handgun loaded, and I keep it on my hip or in the lock box (Honeywell keypad lock box, $25 at Wal Mart). It won't prevent any theft, but access to the gun will be intentional and NOT accidental. It takes 5 seconds to open the lock box and retrieve the gun.

4. When you are away it is wise to put the weapons away, but for just one or two guns, it's really not worth the expense of a "safe". If you are away and want to limit access to the kids/others, another option is to put the rifle/shotgun ammunition in a steel lock box along with some part of the weapon that will make it inoperable (the bolt or trigger group of the rifle/shotgun).

 

[yooper_sjd]

I was very puzzled when, in the midst of this crisis, a police officer showed up at m

slam the door in his face, and grab the 45/70

 

[Froggy]

Tripp, finding a gun that "fits" you is a subjective exercise. Part of it is literal fit... is it the right size, shape, etc; and part of it is the question of revolver vs autoloader, choice of caliber, etc. So, don't be surprised if you and your wife come to different conclusions about what "fits" best.

The best bet, as others have said, is to get a gun-owning friend to let you handle some of his guns and answer your questions first hand. Then do some reading -- here are two good places to start:

Handguns for home defense

The Cornered Cat (though written with women in mind, the advice here is good across the board for anyone new to guns; you'll find the piece on "trying on a handgun" especially interesting.)

It's good to see you've started with some formal training. Even that little bit of practical experience might help you identify what will and won't work for you when it comes down to selecting the right gun.

For my 2d, if you are buying only one gun for home defense it should be a handgun. If you are buying two, the second should be a shotgun. Last on the list, and then only for the possibility of the disaster scenarios, would be a rifle of some type... but I would be inclined to buy a second handgun (so each half of the spouse team has one) before I bought a rifle.

The page on Chuck Hawks' site (link above) covers handguns nicely.

My pick for a shotgun would be a Remington 870.

Though I own a number of them, I really don't see a rifle coming into use for most self / home defense scenarios... if you are not a "gun person," it might be difficult to get and stay proficient in its use. Others will disagree and I'll leave it to them to make recommendations.

As for your (proper) concerns about security, you can get small safes (about the size of two shoe boxes) that bolt to the floor, wall, or which can be secured to the frame of a bed, which will keep your children away from your handgun yet make it easily accessible in time of need. You can also get devices that attach to the wall which will hold your loaded shotgun ready to use but inoperable until a key is used to remove it from the locking bracket. And you can get locks that will prevent the rifle from being loaded until it is needed.

Alternatively, you can buy a reasonably affordable "gun safe" (actually, a residential security container) that will fit inside a small closet and make all of your guns unreachable by anyone not willing or able to slice the container open with the right tools. Even if you use an RSC for the long guns, keeping the handgun more accessible is recommended.

 

[CountGlockula]

Welcome!!! You've made great choice to a chosen few.

Personal recommendations:

1. What type of handguns to get (money is not a barrier, though we certainly don't need any exotic or especially high performing (costly) weapons, given our purpose)?

Great beginner guns to rent and practice; ultimately focus on hand ergonomics and comfortablility. Look into Ruger revolvers in .357 or Glock semi-automatic handguns model 17 or 19 in .9mm. The Ruger revolver is great ease; the Glock will help with a larger round capacity.

2. Should we consider a rifle either instead of a handgun, or perhaps in addition to it??

Not a rifle, a Remington 870 12 gauge shotgun.

3. How do we keep our weapons from being used, in our absence, by our children, or by their friends, or by someone who shouldn't be in our house (not that that has ever happened), and still ensure that the weapon is available for our use at a moment's notice?

Purchase a safe. I have a GunVault that uses touch combination.

4. Is there some special kind of safeguard we could get?

Join the NRA.

 

[up_onus]

I am a little surprised that nobody mentions carbines besides myself...running around your house with a LARGE shotgun is not an easy task! Plus, they arent nearly as fun as some of the large capacity carbines (specifically made to clear rooms, peirce armor etc...) to shoot!

To each their own....

 

[Black Majik]

I am a little surprised that nobody mentions carbines besides myself...running around your house with a LARGE shotgun is not an easy task! Plus, they arent nearly as fun as some of the large capacity carbines (specifically made to clear rooms, peirce armor etc...) to shoot!

To each their own....

Well, mainly because it's not advisable to clear a house by yourself. As much as the movies do it, just sit back in your bedroom with the gun trained on the door. Theres no point looking for the trouble, have it come to you. You gain the advantage of surprise if you're in one position waiting vs. walking around and having the BG get the drop on you.

 

[CountGlockula]

Weapon mounted lights are good too.

Just look for the rail. I have a Surefire X200B, wide beam.