Looking for CQB 7.62x39 options, short barrel, legally a "pistol"

[brunowbe]

What’s your budget? I hear good things about Occam Defense and they have an AK pistol that looks like it might work for your needs. Spendy though.
https://occamdefense.com/ods-1775-akm-pattern-pistol-deposit/

You can also buy the Occam Defense rail by itself, which gets you a good top rail for optics and mlok slots, but installing it on a gun that is already fully assembled is a little invasive and if you have a combination gas block/front sight, you’ll probably need to swap that out.

For a short defensive “pistol” (carbine) in 7.62x39 I’d recommend sticking with something in the AKM family as opposed to something based on the AR. While that does give you a bit more weight I think you’ll have better reliability especially with a short barrel. 7.62x39 AR mags don’t have a great reputation for reliability, and it’s hard to find a mag more reliable and durable than an eastern block AK mag.

That’s an awful lot of cash for what amounts to a kit build. OP can get a quality factory built import for far less and still have money left over to accessorize it however OP wants.

 

[Styx]

CMMG /Thread
https://cmmg.com/7-62

Takes the plentiful, relaible, and inexpensive AK mags on a AR platform. Most of the millions of stuff available for ARs will work on the CMMG rifles/pistols. The CMMG Mutant has been around for several years, and is well tested. There are fullauto meltdown videos and videos of people who use it for hunting hogs on YouTube.



Banshee

 

[BigBlue 94]

Another vote for the ak mag banshee.

 

[MechaDragon]

@Telekinesis @sarduy @Styx @brunowbe

I do really like the ODS AK but $3000 for an AK is just outlandish, I do really like the Draco with the furniture, seems like a decent option, also found that the newer M+M Industries M10-762P 11.5" AK Pistol is lighter than the old model at 5.8 lbs dry, and comes with a Cold Hammer Forged Barrel, all for a reasonable price. We discussed the CMMG Banshee Earlier, I do definitely love the Banshee 200 just for the slightly longer 10" barrel on the 7.62x39 variant which would be barely satisfactory for my needs, and I do also really like the Galil Ace Gen 2 but there are a couple of problems with it in my case, its quite heavy for such a small package and the barrel length choices are just plain weird, you have the 8.3 in terrible ballistics fire-ball gun, then the 13" which is hardly any shorter or lighter than the rifle variant.

IWI making some strange choices these days, but no doubt an incredible, war-proven firearm. The CMMG Banshee 200 is still looking like the best overall bet, it has the lighter weight, the modern furniture and accessory mounting, and as a bonus it can be coated from the factory for a stunning finish for not a whole lot extra. The ONLY bummers with the CMMG is the barrel is slightly short, and I wish they used a Cold Hammer Forged Barrel, however as proven in this meltdown video, the barrel used is NOT a low-quality one whatsoever:

 

[MechaDragon]

I mean just look at this absolutely stunning white CMMG Banshee 200 in 7.62x39 dubbed: "The White Russian", dang what a sexy piece of kit this is! Im not one for form over function, I definitely care much more about the function of a firearm than the looks, but this thing functions as well as a real Kalashnikov AK-47 and yet looks good enough to be put on display in a glass case, especially with that suppressor on it, the black and white two-tone is just a stunning combination:

 

[MechaDragon]

So this is the firearm I have settled on, a rifle-caliber-pistol by legal definition. Yes, I know .300 BLK is an expensive round, but this rifle makes up for it by having literally everything I could ever ask for in a perfect all-rounder firearm. It is very lightweight, at just 6.15 lbs INCLUDING the law tactical folding SB Tactical SOB Pistol Brace. It also has a chrome-lined cold hammer forged barrel so I can dump mags back to back with no issues whatsoever. The 10.3" barrel is more than enough to send the 300 BLK round out to up to 400 yards, with enough carried energy to down an elk. Yet; when folded, the firearm is just under 21" long, meaning it will easily fit into a backpack. And when I am ready, a tax stamp, suppressor, and subsonic ammunition will offer "hollywood quiet" operation as a big bonus. I plan to have the firearm cerakoted by a local company, I hope to get the finish as close to the picture below the firearm as possible, the coating is called "Titanium Shadow Camo" and it is absolutely stunning! Here is a link to the firearm: https://danieldefense.com/ddm4-v7p-lawtactical-300blackout.html



"Titanium Shadow Camo" Cerakote by F1 Firearms:

 

[mokin]

So this is the firearm I have settled on, a rifle-caliber-pistol by legal definition. Yes, I know .300 BLK is an expensive round, but this rifle makes up for it by having literally everything I could ever ask for in a perfect all-rounder firearm. It is very lightweight, at just 6.15 lbs INCLUDING the law tactical folding SB Tactical SOB Pistol Brace. It also has a chrome-lined cold hammer forged barrel so I can dump mags back to back with no issues whatsoever. The 10.3" barrel is more than enough to send the 300 BLK round out to up to 400 yards, with enough carried energy to down an elk. Yet; when folded, the firearm is just under 21" long, meaning it will easily fit into a backpack. And when I am ready, a tax stamp, suppressor, and subsonic ammunition will offer "hollywood quiet" operation as a big bonus. I plan to have the firearm cerakoted by a local company, I hope to get the finish as close to the picture below the firearm as possible, the coating is called "Titanium Shadow Camo" and it is absolutely stunning! Here is a link to the firearm: https://danieldefense.com/ddm4-v7p-lawtactical-300blackout.html

View attachment 1047426

"Titanium Shadow Camo" Cerakote by F1 Firearms:
View attachment 1047427

I think you'll like that. While I prefer the 7.62 x 39 cartridge to the 300 Blackout, I think for your application, the 300 BO is better. I have shot suppressed 300 BO and found it quite pleasant. My experience with a pistol length AK is limited to observing a fellow competitor in a 3 Gun match. That "rifle" made more noise and blast than an AR-10! Definitely not something I'd want to shoot indoors.

 

[fireman 9731]

I love AKs and x39. I wanted pretty close to what you have described. I had a Draco 10 years ago and traded it for a regular AK as the muzzle blast was not pleasant.
This past month I finally finished a 10.5 inch 300 Blackout with a brace that I have been very pleased with so far. Yes, steel cased 300blk is twice the cost of x39, but it really excels in what you are looking for. With an AR you can also easily add all your doodads, a lot easier than an AK.

All of this is also coming from a die hard AK/anti AR guy.

A 9-12 inch 300blk is really in a sweet spot.

 

[Styx]

I love AKs and x39. I wanted pretty close to what you have described. I had a Draco 10 years ago and traded it for a regular AK as the muzzle blast was not pleasant.

That's what flash hiders are for. A 4 peice Bulgarian flash hider will almost eliminate muzzle bast/flash. I never fired a Draco, but I've fired and I own a Zastava Npap 92 and Npap 85. The muzzle bast on both isn't that bad at all with or without a flash hider. My experience is shooting at firing them at an indoor range with lighting that I would not described as being that bright.

The cost of ammo of the 300blk especially in todays time is a huge turn off for me. If you are a casual shooter or have lots of expendable $$$, I guess it's no big deal. Other than that, $21 per mag (at the absolute low end buying in bulk) makes it a no go for me. I will stick with x39 in both AKs and ARs. YMMV

 

[BreechFace]

CZ Bren 2 MS either 9", 11" or 14". I would go with the 9" as a suppressor host, and given your desire for CQB. Even with a 9", the 7.62x39 from what I've read (I don't have a short barreled x29) can hit 2,000fps with a 123gr., that's some good energy for that small of a package.

I personally think this runs circles around the Galil Ace when comparing what they have to offer. You mentioned some reliability issues, was those the early Gen1's with magazine issues. I think much of that was resolved with the Gen2's.

https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-bren-2-ms/

Here is a good straight across comparison between the Bren and Galil

 

[Styx]

CZ Bren 2 MS either 9", 11" or 14". I would go with the 9" as a suppressor host.

I personally think this runs circles around the Galil Ace when comparing what they have to offer.

https://cz-usa.com/product/cz-bren-2-ms/

Here is a good straight across comparison between the Bren and Galil

I have the Bren 1 carbine. Heard there were issues with the Bren 2s. They are nice but very expensive for what they are.

 

[BreechFace]

I have the Bren 1 carbine. Heard there were issues with the Bren 2s. They are nice but very expensive for what they are.

What were the issues? Were they specific to caliber, ie 556, x39?

I've considered one, but the price and the affordability and quality of PSA's AK Gen5's have thrown cold water on my desires a bit.

 

[drobs]

I haven't shot this one in years. I need to update the brace on it. I actually plan to go back to the wood forearm as this Midwest Industries one is overly heavy. There's a company installing MOE slots on AK wood forearms now that, I'm tempted by.
https://warsawwoodco.com/ak-wood-mlok-install-service/

 

[Socorro27]

Im not after a long range shooter with it. I load light ammo for plinking. It wont cycle an AK.

Any chance a lighter spring would work?

 

[Lo-Profile]

I went with a Riley Defense AK with a 10.5" barrel .... SBT-47 brace. Love it. Added a Vortex StrikeFire 2 with a Midwest Industries side mount.

 

[Navy87Guy]

I feel your pain. Im after a 7.62x39 in a bolt action rifle. I keep searching. Hopefully soon one shows up.

@CoalCrackerAl - I have a Ruger American Ranch in 7.62x39 and the thing is an absolute tack driver! The only downside is that it’s not set up for iron sights without an aftermarket rail or mod…but otherwise it’s a great choice for using 7.62 ammo!

If I ever run across a CZ 527 Carbine I’ll probably snag that, too!

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

Im still searching for a bolt rifle. I see Rugers are starting to come back in at my LGS. Word was Ruger was busy getting the marlin line running. Im guessing they are back at Ruger rifles now too.

Socorro27, Im not sure about the spring or not. But im not interested in a AK. Cant scope them for one thing. Im a fan of bolt rifles. I don't care for AR'S either. I owned some and sold them. Im old school lol.

 

[bltmonty]

I have built an AR15 pistol, ten inch barrel in both 300 blackout and 7.62x39; I also reload and know how to get the best performance out of short barrels. I have a Midway stoner barrel for the blackout and Bear Creek Arsenal barrel for the 7.62.x39. both have been flawless from the start. I tend to like the blackout better because the high taper in the 7.62x39 is not as well suited to the AR15. Regardless, using ASC magazines in the 7.62x39, I have never experienced a problem. In the ten inch barrels using 123 and 125 grain bullets, I safely achieve about 2250 fps in the 7.62x39 and 2100 fps in the blackout. Both are very accurate (about .5" groups) at 50 yards, using a basic red dot. I have one for the truck and the other for my house. I see no need to spend 1000 or 2000 dollars on an equivalent AK or the like, for I built both these rifles with solid components for 400-500 dollars a piece, and they are very reliable, accurate, and easily powerful enough for what I need.