Looking for info on Colt 917

[mongo]

Greetings all, I saw a used Colt model 917 in .45acp with a 6" barrel today. The bluing was not shiny, but I didn't see any pitting or wear marks. One of the grips was missing a chip on the bottom at the frame, and the cylinder needed a little oil. Other than that, it looked and felt pretty good. They were asking $695 for it, is this a fair price? I'd appreciate any info that y'all can give me on this fine old revo.
Thank you in advance for your answers,
Mongo

 

[Majic]

Are you talking about a 1917 and if so is it a commercial model or military model?

 

[mongo]

I'm not sure what a 1917 is, (sorry, admiting my ignorance!) It looked like it said model 917 on the bottom of the frame on the grip.

 

[Gordon]

A 1917 .45 acp 5.5" bbl revolver in 85% or better (look at the remaining finish and judge) that is tight and functional is well worth $600 to a collector who wants one. A neophyte would be better served with a nice shiny S&W model 10 .38spl for $250!

 

[mongo]

Thank you kindly Gordon!

 

[mongo]

Well, now that I know a little more... (you guys are great!) I guess it is a commercial model, as it has black plastic(?) grips without the lanyard loop. I found a pic of the military model, I will try to post it.

 

[Old Fuff]

The model 1917 was a version of Colt's New Service revolver. They are relatively common in .45 Colt, but commercial guns in .45 ACP are difficult to find because following World War One the country was flooded with military surplus guns, and they killed the regular market for this kind of of revolver.

Military models have lanyard loops and are marked "Model 1917" on the butt, plus a number - which is not necessarily the serial number. It is stamped on the side of the frame behind the crane, and to see and read it you have to swing out the cylinder.

Commercial revolvers are not marked "Model 1917" and may, or may not have a lanyard loop. If the serial number is over 180,000, and it originally left the factory as a .45 ACP and not a .45 Colt you may have found a real winner.

 

[Gordon]

My remark on the S&W model 10 was NOT meant to be demeaning,just the best possible advice from a person who has collected New Services for 40 years -and KNOWS their WARTS

 

[John C]

Gordon;

I'm intrigued by your comment that based on your collecting experience you know the warts of the Colt New Service. I've often heard that while the New Service is a great pistol, they can be finicky and easily fall out of time/the cranes get bent.

Is there anything else an inexperienced buyer should look for when buying a Colt New Service?

Thanks,

-John

 

[Gordon]

NO parts available,lack of gunsmiths (Colt's doesn't support them and Cylinder and Slide is 'iffy'), they are not real accurate either.They DO have a certain mystique from being the largest Colt and all. But if you are NOT an advanced Collector
I would reccomend a nice simple pre 80's S&W.

 

[Old Fuff]

I've often heard that while the New Service is a great pistol, they can be finicky and easily fall out of time/the cranes get bent.

Yup, that’s why it was in continues production from 1898 through 1941 – although a few were made thereafter until about 1944. During this time Colt made some 356,000 of them. It was adopted by the U.S. Army as the Model 1909 and later, as the Model 1917. What remained of the ‘17’s were returned to service during the Second World War.

New Service revolvers were adopted by a number of state highway patrols, including N.Y. and GA., and served as an official sidearm of the U.S. Border Patrol – first as 1917 models and later in a .38 Special version.

For some reason these outfits were unaware of how easily they got out of time, how finicky they were, and that cranes were so easily bent.

I don’t dispute that there are problems finding parts these days, and that not every neighborhood gunsmith knows how to fix ‘um. But this was a heavy-duty sidearm that saw extensive service with both military and police services for over 40 years.

Fragile it was not.

 

[thatguy]

I don't know about the New Service being finicky. In my experience they are huge, robust revolvers. In fact, too big for comfort.

They were used in the 1920s and 1930s by many police agencies (Charles Askins wrote of the Border Patrol being issued NSs in .38 Special and I know the Texas Highway Patrol also used them) and the complaints were about the size and weight, not the durability of these guns.

My wife bought me this one a few birthdays ago. It was shipped in .455 Eley caliber and sold through Colt's London office, so it maybe saw service in The Kaiser's War since Brit officers had to buy their own sidearms. It wound up back in the U.S. and someone decided it would good in nickel. Was also converted to .45 Colt.

 

[Gordon]

I never said they were fragile ect. , but the lock work is not as durable as an S&W . My 95%+ Shooting Master from 1939 is not near as accurate as it's Officers model cousins-either!

 

[Old Fuff]

Interesting: I also have a Shooting Master in .38 Special, and it is as accurate, or more so then several Officer Model Match/Target revolvers I've used, including one that has a Shooting Master (heavy) barrel. However the larger frame has the bore sitting higher in the hand, and this can make some difference.

 

[mongo]

OK, more lack of knowledge by me here...
What is/how do they "fall out of time/cranes get bent" mean? How does one tell if this has happened? Does this mean something real bad that apparently few people can correct?
thanks in advance for your collective information,
Mongo

 

[only1asterisk]

In fact, too big for comfort.

Maybe for people with little girly hands.

David

 

[Old Fuff]

OK, more lack of knowledge by me here...
What is/how do they "fall out of time/cranes get bent" mean? How does one tell if this has happened? Does this mean something real bad that apparently few people can correct?

“Out of time” means that the internal parts of the lockwork are not moving in the correct sequence. Consequently the cylinder may not revolve far enough between chambers, or in rare cases it may try to revolve too far. Or the cylinder bolt (the part then engages the slots in the cylinder to lock the cylinder in line with the barrel) may not move down quickly enough to unlock the cylinder when the hammer is cocked or the trigger is pulled in the double-action mode. On the other hand it may not come up again soon enough to lock the next chamber or pop up to early and rub the cylinder, leaving a line in it.

The “crane” is the part that holds the cylinder when you swing it out to load or unload the revolver. Mishandling may cause it to become bent, after which it will not fit tightly against the frame while the cylinder is closed. This condition is more likely to be found in lighter framed Colt’s such as the Detective Special then a New Service, which has larger, stronger parts.

None of this is good, although it’s nothing that can’t be fixed, and sometimes done without replacing parts. These particular kinds of Colt revolvers are designed to be that way. Unfortunately there are few gunsmiths around that are familiar with them, and qualified to repair them. One that isn’t qualified or experienced can quickly ruin a gun. However some are left, but their services may be expensive.

In my experience – which is considerable – these older Colt revolvers work fine as long as they are right in the first place (or returned to that condition) and then shot but not abused.

Recently I obtained an old 1920’s Colt Army Special (sort of a great-grandfather to today’s Python) that was out of time. The crane was sprung (bent) and the cylinder wouldn’t carry-up (revolve far enough to lock between chambers). I fixed it in 15 minutes with just one tool.

A hammer ....

Of course there is more to this, but that’s another story.

Recently a thread was posted by another member, which described in detail how to check-out an older Colt. When I get time I’ll try to find you a link.

Edited to add: I was unable to find the link I was looking for. If you send a P.M. to dfariswheel I think he can help you.